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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1990-06-19 CC MIN ~ r c , SPECIAL MEETING STILLWATER CITY COUNCIL MINUTES June 19, 1990 4:30 P.M. The Meeting was called to order by Mayor Abrahamson. Present: Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Absent: None Also Present: City Coordinator Kriesel City Attorney Magnuson Finance Director Deblon Public Works Director JunKer City Clerk Johnson Press: None Others: Charles Thell, McGladry & Pullen; Cherie Berett, JacK Evert, Scott Keller, James McKinney, Warren PaKulski and Lauie Maher, Charter Commission. 1. McGladref & Pullen - Presentation of 1989 Audit. Mr. Char es Thell, representing McGladry & Pullen, City Auditors, presented a review of the 1989 audit. Motion by Councilmember BodlovicK, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to adopt the appropriate resolution accepting the 1989 Financial Report; and authorizing the Finance Director to submit the report for the Government Finance Officers Ass'n. Awards Program. (Resolution No. 8300) AYes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None 2. WorKshop with Charter Commission - Possible Change to Ward System. Jack Evert, Chalrman of the Charter Commisslon, presented new members of the Commission, Laurie Maher and Warren PakulsKi. He also announced Jack Tunheim has consented to serve a second term on the Commission. Mr. Evert summarized the work of the Commission and the previous meeting with Council where the Ward plan was accepted in concept. He also gave a brief lOOK at population figures and stated they would probably divide the City into four Wards, splitting the downtown area. Discussion followed, with Council comments. Several Councilmembers stated they had received negative comments from the public regarding the plan. 1 r r' r ,~ Stillwater City Council Minutes Special Meeting June 19, 1990 Motion by Councilmember Kimble, seconded by Councilmember Opheim to set the date of August 28,1990, at 7:00 P.M., for a Public Hearing on the proposal of the Charter Commission to change the City's at-large Election Precinct System to a Ward System; and to inform the public through the City Newsletter. (All in favor). RECESS Motlon by Councilmember Opheim, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to recess the meeting at 5:57 P.M. (All in favor). ATTEST: a)n~7 ~ ~~,~~ Resolutions: No. 83UU - Accepting the 1989 Financial Report. 2 (' REGULAR MEETING STILLWATER CITY COUNCIL MINUTES June 19, 1990 7:00 P.M. The Meeting was called to order by Mayor Abrahamson. Present: Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Absent: None Also Present: City Coordinator Kriesel City Attorney Magnuson Consulting Engineer Moore Comm. Dev. Director Russell ParKs Director Blekum Public Works Director Junker Public Safety Director Mawhorter City ClerK Johnson Press: Julie Kink, The Courier John Gilstrom, Stillwater Gazette Others: Stella Casanova, Janet Schell, Mr. & Mrs. R. Cummings, Emery Barrette, LYle Doerr, Washington County, David DuBois, Mary Jane Geary, Marge Denhartigh, Mr. & Mrs. Dauffenbach, Harold Teasdale, Lola Wid~er, Mr. Bruggeman, Glen Webster. r EXTENSION OF SYMPATHY TO WILLIAM HOOLEY FAMILY Councllmember BOdlovick, speaklng on behalf of the Council, offered an extension of sympathy to the family of William Hooley, who recently passed away. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember BodlovicK to approve the minutes of the Regular and Recessed Meetings of June 5, 1990 as presented. ( All in favor). INDIVIDUALS, DELEGATIONS & COMMENDATIONS 1. Request for Taxl License - "Wee Chauffeur, Inc. " Mary Jane Geary and Margaret Denhartigh were present to explain their new business venture of chauffeuring children when parents are unable to do so and to request a taxi license to operate in the City of Stillwater. Motion by Councilmember BodlovicK, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to approve the Taxi License for "Wee Chauffeur, Inc..., waiving the regulation regarding a taxi meter, being'in operation 24 hrs; a day and contingent on an inspection by the Police Dept. (All in favor). c 1 (' Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 2. HWM Technolo ies, Inc. - Plan for Renovation of Church Pro ert at Fourth 1 ne treets. Mr. David DuBois was present to request Council consideration of their plan for renovation of the Old Baptist Church property at the above address. City Attorney Magnuson explained the City presently has an action in District Court to demolish the building, but the owner has 45 days to present a feasible plan to the City. A resident next door to the property stated it would cost too much to restore the building and it has been an eyesore for a long time. Council will give a decision at a later date after reviewing the plan. 3. Stella Casanova - Com laint Re ardin Sewer and Garba e Bill te a asanova, . lne ., was presen to protest t e designation of her residence as a duplex and, thus, incur a garbage and sewer bill for two housing units. Council suggested she remove the stove and refrigerator from the upstairs. No action was taKen. r STAFF REPORTS 1. PubllC WorKs Director - Purchase of Slckle Bar Motion by Councllmember Dpheim, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to authorize the purchase of a sickle bar for the Public WorKs Dept. at a cost of $750. (All in favor). Motion by Councilmember Bodlovick, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to authorize a "Permit to Consume" for the Shannon party at Pioneer Pk. on JUly 22, 1990. (All in favor). 3. r 2 (' r r Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None Promotion of Cara Ca~uzzi as Full-Time ParKin9 Control Officer Motion by Councllmember BodloV1Ck, seconded by Councllmember Kimble to adopt the appropriate resolution promoting Cara Capuzzi as full-time Parking Control Officer in the Police Dept. effective July 1, 1990. (Resolution No. 8303) AYes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None Employment of Part-Time Police Officers Motion by Councllmember Klmble, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to adopt the appropriate resolution appointing the following as Part-Time Police Officers, contingent on completion of a background checK, physical examination and psychological exam: Michael Jensen, Kevin Monio, Paul Widenstrom, John Serier II, Joanne Sellner, MacK Warren and Liane Sellner. (Resolution No. 8304) Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None PUBLIC HEARINGS 1. ThlS is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider the transfer of an On-Sale Liquor License for Cat Ballou's, 112 No. Main St., Debra Kay Van Dellen and Lori Jean Thonnes, applicants. Notice of the hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990. 3 ~ r r ~ Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 Debra Kay VanDellen and Loni Jean Thonnes were present to answer questions regarding their request for an On-Sale Liquor License transfer for Cat Ballou's at 112 No. Main St. Mayor Abrahamson and Council noted they had received a letter from the present holder of the license, Kathy and Jerry Sanford, stating they were in the process of buying the property and do not want the license transferred. Since this has not been completed and the present owner of the property, Richard Anderson, is in agreement with the transfer, Council moved the following after Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing: Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to authorize the transfer of an On-Sale Liquor License for Cat Ballou's, 112 No. Main St., for Debra Van Dellen and Loni Thonnes, contingent on a lease agreement being completed between the applicants and owner of the premises. (All in favor). 2. This is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider the transfer of an On-Sale Wine and Beer License for Silver Lake Restaurant, 241 So. Main St., Kenny Ming Kor, applicant. Notice of the hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember BodlovicK to approve the transfer of the On-Sale Wine and Beer License for the Silver Lake Restaurant, 241 So. Main St., for Kenny Ming Kor. (All in favor). 3. This is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider the transfer of an On-Sale Beer License for Pizza Plus Ribs, 1975 So. Greeley St., Douglas Dean PolubinsKY, applicant. Notice of the hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. Motion by Councilmember Bodlovick, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to authorize the transfer of an On-Sale Beer License for Pizza Plus Ribs, 1975 So. Greeley St., Douglas Polubinsky. (All in favor). 4. This is the day and time for the continuance of the Public Hearing to consider a Major Subdivision of three lots consisting of 21,750, 21,750, and 43,500 sq. ft. into four lots, all of which will consist of 21,750 sq. ft. on Poplar St. between North Fifth St. and North Everett St. in the RA, Single-Family Residential Dist., Case No. SUB/90-23. Larry Dauffenbach, Applicant. 4 (' Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 r Notice of the hearing was published in The Courier on May 24, 1990 and copies were mailed to affected property owners. Consulting Engineer Moore presented the study that was done regarding the drainage problems and solutions for the area of Mr. Dauffenbach's proposed subdivision. He proposed three alternatives, i.e. constructing a swale to a culvert which would cost approximately $900; placement of a storm sewer pipe along the existing drainage area and shallow swales to direct runoff to catch basins at an approximate cost of $13,705; and to place a storm sewer system within the No. 5th St. right-of-way with reconstruction of the street, curb and gutter at an approximate cost of $49,150. It was noted that Mr. Dauffenbach's project is quite small and he is willing to pond the water on Lot 4 in order to alleviate any further problems. Tom Bredvige, speaKing on behalf of Janet Schell, spoKe of Mrs. Schells concerns. He stated there is a lot of washout and she objects to Lot 4 being developed. He further stated Mrs. Schell is willing to pay her fair share if the water is diverted on to 5th St. The $900 solution will not worK. Discussion followed. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. Motion by Councilmember Kimble, seconded by Councilmember Bodlovick to adopt the appropriate resolution accepting the Feasibility Report for L.I. 264, Poplar Street Drainage Project and setting a public hearing date of July 17, 1990 at 7:00 P.M. (Resolution No. 8305) Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None Motion by Councilmember Kimble, seconded by Councilmember BodlovicK to approve a Major Subdivision of three lots consisting of 21,750, 21,750 and 43,500 sq. ft. into four lots all of which will consist of 21,750 sq. ft. on Poplar St. between No. Fifth St. and No. Everett St. in the RA, Single-Family Residential Dist., with the condition that the water run-off from the property remain on the property, Case No. SUB/90-23. Larry Dauffenbach, Applicant. (All in favor) . 5. This is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider a Variance to the sid~ard setback requirements for the addition to an existing garage and conversion of an existing garage into habitable living space at 1124 ParKwood Lane in the RA, Single-Family Residential Dist., Case No. V/90-19. David Widmyer, Applicant. Notice of the Hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990 and copies were mailed to affected property owners. r \ '- 5 ~ r r ~ Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 Lola Widmyer explained the request for the variance in order to construct the garage addition. The request was approved by the Planning Commission. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to approve a Variance to the sideyard setbacK requirements for the addition to an existing garage and conversion of an existing garage into habitable living space at 1124 ParKwood Lane in the RA, Single-Family Residential Dist., as conditioned, Case No. V/90-19. David Widmyer, Applicant. (All in favor). 6. This is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider a PUD Amendment for Concept Approval of a sixty-two unit Planned Unit Development on a thirteen acre parcel and final PUD approval for the fourteen unit First Phase Development located between the Green's Townhomes and the Townhomes at OaK Glen on McKusicK Road in the CA, Single-Family Residential Dist., Case No. SUB/90-34. Bruggeman Construction, Applicant. Notice of the Hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990 and copies were mailed to affected property owners. Mr. Russell explained the request, stating this is a modification of a previously approved PUD permit by reducing the number of single family attached units from 70 to 62 and final PUD approval for the 14 unit first addition. He noted that several neighbors from the Greens Townhomes and OaK Glen Townhomes indicated concern for original conditions on the OaK Glen properties -- covenants and design compatibility. The Planning Commission recommended approval of the plan. Gary Boss, 830 Towne Circle, stated he felt this is a good plan and would liKe the transition to this development to be gradual. Glen Webster, 800 Towne Circle, stated the plan is favorable. Mr. Bruggeman stated he has had favorable response to his plan for development. He further discussed the architectural scheme. He feels his design is compatible with the neighborhood, and does not want to get into conflict. Mr. Boss reiterated that his concern is not with the quality of the development, but with exterior compatibility. Emery Barrette, 815 Towne Circle, stated the OaK Glen Ass'n. want to ensure a quality development at OaK Glen and are pleased with the Bruggeman plans. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. 6 r ~ r , , Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember BodlovicK to approve a PUD Amendment for Concept Approval of a sixty-two unit Planned Unit Development on a thirteen acre parcel located between the Green's Townhomes and the Townhomes at OaK Glen on McKusick Road in the CA, Single-Family Residential Dist., as conditioned, Case No. SUB/90-34. Bruggeman' Construction, Applicant. (All in favor). Motion by Councilmember BodlovicK, seconded by Councilmember Farrell for final PUD approval for the fourteen unit First Phase Development located between the Green's Townhomes and the Townhomes at OaK Glen on McKusicK Road in the CA, Single-Family Residential Dist., as conditioned, Case No. SUB/90-34. Bruggeman Construction, Applicant. (All in favor). 7. This is the day and time for the Public Hearing to consider Final Plat Approval for the first addition of a PUD Amendment consisting of a fourteen unit Planned Unit Development between the Greens Townhomes and the Townhomes at OaK Glen on McKusicK Road in the CA, Single Family Residential Dist., Case No. PUD/90-33. Bruggeman Construction, Applicants. Notice of the Hearing was published in The Courier on June 14, 1990 and copies were mailed to affected property owners. Mayor Abrahamson closed the public hearing. Motion by Councilmember Bodlovick, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to give Final Plat Approval for the first addition of a PUD Amendment.consisting of a fourteen unit Planned Unit Development between the Greens Townhomes and the Townhomes at OaK Glen on McKusicK Road in the CA, Single Family Residential Dist., as conditioned, Case' No. PUD/90-33. Bruggeman Construction, Applicants. (All in favor) Council recessed for five minutes and reconvened at 9:12 P.M. Motion by Councilmember BodlovicK, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to authorize building permits for construction of two model home units at OaK Glen, Bruggeman Construction. (All in favor). UNFINISHED BUSINESS 1. Contract Ap~roval for Rivertown Ministries. Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to approve the contract with Rivertown Ministries for various City projects and authorizing the Mayor and ClerK to sign. (All in favor). 2. Construction of Retaining Wall, Cottages of Stillwater, Phase III. Comm. Dev. Director Russell presented a request from Harold Teasdale, representing Cottages of Stillwater, Phase III, to construct a retaining 7 ~ Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 wall which will encroach on City property. City Attorney Magnuson stated a license should be granted for maintenance of the Wall by the Developer. Motion by Councilmember Kimble, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to authorize the construction of a retaining wall at Cottages of Stillwater, Phase III and granting a license for maintenance of the wall. (All in favor). 2. r Lyle Doerr, representing Washington County, commented on the request. He stated they want to proceed with a petition for annexation at an early date. Further discussion followed between Council, Staff and Mr. Doerr. Motion by Councilmember Bodlovick, seconded by Councilmember Opheim to approve the temporary parking arrangements for the three-story addition to the Washington Co. Government Center as conditioned. (All in favor). Council will discuss the resolution for annexation of lands for continuing construction of the Government Center at the next regular meeting after the County Board has met. Motion by Councilmember Opheim, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to extend an invitation to the Oak ParK Heights City Council to meet at Stillwater City Hall at a mutually agreeable time. (All in favor). 3. Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Opheim to review building activities and consideration of staffing before the budget is completed. (All in favor). adopt Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None c 8 ~ Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 2. Request for approval of Summer Intern for Community Development Department. Motion by Councilmember BodlovicK, seconded by Councilmember Farrell to adopt the appropriate resolution employing David C. Brandt as a summer intern in the Planning Dept. (Resolution No. 8307) AYes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None 3. Re6uest to consider Modification to Method of Collecting Planning, pu llshlng and Recordlng Costs. Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Bodlovick to approve the recommendation of the Comm. Dev. Director as it pertains to Planning, Public Hearing and Recording Fees by requiring pre-payment. (All in favor). 4. r Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None 6. Ayes - Council members BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None CONSENT AGENDA Motion by Councilmember Bodlovick, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to approve the Consent Agenda of June 19, 1990, with the inclusion of expenses from Councilmember Farrell, and including the following: (All in favor) c 9 o Stillwater City Council Minutes Regul ar Meeti ng June 19, 1990 1. Directin~ Payment of Bills. Ayes - Counc lmembers Bodlovick, Nays - None 2. The following Contractor's Licenses. Aqua Mates General Contractor 1027 No. Knowles Ave. New Richmond, Wi 54017 (Resolution No. 8299) Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Renewal B & E Fence Co. Fencing 6728 Fourth St. No. OaKdale, Mn. 55128 Renewal Thomas Garley Construction General Contractor 13295 Boutwell Road Stillwater, Mn. 55082 Lakewood Interiors & Additions General Contractor 1742 FranK Street Maplewood, Mn. 55109 Renewal Renewal r Omni Pool & Spa 2202 Fifth St. No. White Bear Lake, Mn. 55110 General Contractor Renewal Vieregge Construction, Inc. 1204 NameKagon Loop Hudson, Wi 54016 Steve Zigan Construction 16822 So. Upper 17th St. St. Croix Beach, Mn. 55043 3. Set Public Hearing Date of July 3, 1990 for the following Planning Cases: a. CASE NO. V/90-27 - Variance to the lot size requirements for the subdivislon of a 13,400 square foot lot into two lots of 6,700 square feet (7,500 square feet required) at 1215 South Third Street in the RB, Two Family Residential District. Wallace Nelson, Jr., Applicant. b. CASE NO. V/90-29 - Variance to the rearyard setbacK requirements (three feet proposed, ten feet required) for the construction of a garage addition at 321 West Olive Street in the RCM, Multiple Family Residential District. Tim Parker and M. Calver, Applicants. c. CASE NO. V/90-30 - Variance to the sideyard setbacK requirements (five feet required, two feet proposed) for the construction of a garage General Contractor New General Contractor Renewal (' 10 ~ o r Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 addition at 122 South Sherburne Street in the RB, Two Family Residential District. James Kallem, Applicant. d. CASE NO. SUP/90-32 - Special Use Permit to conduct a mail order business out of an apartment at 1451 South Greeley Street (Apt. 111) in the RCM, Multiple Family Residential District. Cindy L. Multer, Applicant. e. CASE NO. SUP/90-35 - Special Use Permit for two offices in an existing residential structure (Arlington Apartments) located at 160-200 South Third Street in the RCM, Multiple Family Residential District. Richard Kilty, Applicant. f. CASE NO. V/90-36 - Variance to the front and sideyard setbacK requirements for the construction of a parking structure along with improving an existing street easement at 160-200 South Third Street in the RCM, Multiple Family Residential District. Richard Kilty, Applicant. g. CASE NO. V/90-28 - Variance to the lot depth requirements (83 feet proposed, 100 feet required) for a subdivision of a 32,640 'square foot lot into two lots of 9,960 square feet (83 feet lot depth) and 22,680 at 801 West Pine Street in the RB, Two Family Residential District. James and Ingrid Lund, Applicants. h. CASE NO. V/90-37 - Variance to the front yard setback requirements (15 feet proposed, 30 required) for the construction of a home on Willard Street (refer to Case V/90-28) between William and Martha Streets in the RB, 'Two Family Residential District. James and Ingrid Lund, Applicants. 4. Set Public Hearing Date of July 17, 1990 for the following Planning Cases: a. CASE ZAT/90-2 - A Zoning Text Amendment rescinding the IP-I Industrial Park Industrial Zoning District and replacing it with a BP-I Business ParK- Industrial District. City of Stillwater, Applicant. b. CASE NO. ZAM/90-2 - A Zoning Map Amendment designating lands in the Stillwater Business ParK BP-I, Business ParK-Industrial District. City of Stillwater, Applicant. c. CASE NO. ZAT/90-3 - A Zoning Text Amendment rescinding the IP-Cl Industrial Park Commercial One District and replacing it with the BP-O, Business ParK Office District. City of Stillwater, Applicant. d. CASE NO. ZAM/90-3 - A Zoning Map Amendment designating lands in the Stillwater Business ParK BP-O, Business ParK Office District. Ci~ of Stillwater, Applicant. e. CASE NO. ZAT/90-4 - A Zoning Text Amendment rescinding the IP-C Industrial Park-Commercial and replacing it with the BP-C Business ParK Commercial District. City of Stillwater, Applicant. f. CASE NO. ZAM/90-4 - A Zoning Map Amendment designating lands in the Stlllwater BUSlness ParK BP-C, Business ParK Commercial District. City of Stillwater, Applicant. 11 r' Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 COUNCIL REQUEST ITEMS 1. Oak Glen Ne~otiating Committee Motion by Counc lmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Kimble recommending that the OaK Glen Negotiating Committee remain active as the OaK Glen plans are finalized. (All in favor). Mayor Abrahamson reported he had met with Art Palmer (Lowell Inn) to discuss the designation of a loading zone in front of.the hotel and further use of the next-door parKing lot. ("' Ayes - Councilmembers Bodlovick, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None 2. ParKing Lease A~eement with Cub Foods Motion by Councilme er Farrell, seconded by Counc1lmember Kimble to adopt the appropriate resolution approving the agreement with Cub Foods regarding the ParKing Lot Lease. (Resolution No. 8310) Ayes - Councilmembers BodlovicK, Farrell, Kimble, Opheim and Mayor Abrahamson. Nays - None 3. On-Site Sewer Permit 2285 Orwell Court. Motion by Councilmember BOdlOViCk, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to approve an On-Site Sewer Permit for Lot 2, BlOCK 2, Penthouse Acres (2285 Orwell Court). (All in favor) COMMUNICATIONS/REQUESTS 1. Request from resident at 1208 No. Broadway for street improvement and concern for speeding trafflc. Council noted this request. 2. Metro~olitan Transit Commission - Shelter Program. No ac ion was taken. 3. Invitation from Herberyer's for tour of store on June 21. Council noted thlS lnv tation. c 12 (\ Stillwater City Council Minutes Regular Meeting June 19, 1990 ADJOURNMENT Motion by Councilmember Farrell, seconded by Councilmember Kimble to adjourn the meeting at 10:40 P.M. (All in favor). ATTEST:4~~L~~ dJatJ ~ No. No. No. No. No. r No. No. No. No. No. No. No. c 13