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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-01-15 HPC MIN HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING January 15, 2020 6:00 P.M. The Commission met to discuss 2020 Preserve MN conference planning details. 7:00 P.M. Chairwoman Mino called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Present: Chairman Mino, Commissioners Finwall, Krakowski, Larson, Thueson, Walls, Council Representative Junker Absent: Commissioner Steinwall Staff: City Planner Wittman APPROVAL OF MINUTES Possible approval of minutes of December 18, 2019 Meeting Motion by Commissioner Walls, seconded by Commissioner Krakowski, to approve the minutes of the December 18, 2019 special meeting. Motion passed, 6-0. OPEN FORUM There were no public comments. CONSENT AGENDA Case No. 2019-31: Consideration of new business signage for the property located at 126 2nd St S in the Downtown Design Review district. Setac Properties, property owner and, Jennifer Noden of 7 Edges Design, applicant. Motion by Commissioner Larson, seconded by Commissioner Thueson, to adopt the Consent Agenda. Motion passed, 6-0. PUBLIC HEARING There were no public hearings. NEW BUSINESS There was no new business. UNFINISHED BUSINESS There was no unfinished business. OTHER DISCUSSION ITEMS 2020 Preserve MN Conference Session Proposals Ms. Wittman stated that the Minnesota State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) is accepting proposals for speaker sessions for Preserve Minnesota, the 2020 Annual Statewide Historic Preservation Conference to take place in Stillwater from September 16-18, 2020. Proposals are due January 17, 2020. On January 6, 2020 a portion of the HPC met to discuss desired session proposals. Stillwater’s Preservation History was identified as a possible session. Staff has drafted the session proposal and sent it to Commissioner Thueson Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting January 15, 2020 Page 2 of 6 for review. Staff has additionally inquired with Brent Peterson about his potential involvement in the development of the session and/or the possibility of his participation in the session presentation. She asked Commissioners to review the proposal and provide input. The other one is Stillwater’s Preservation Tools - focusing on non traditional preservation tools. She asked the Commissioners to take a look, read them and see if they sound catchy. The HPC has another month to finalize these proposals. She is also working on owners to try to get sessions on adaptive reuse of the JX Event Center Building and the Hotel Lora. Chairwoman Mino said she talked to Charlene Roise who is connected with the MnDOT people regarding the possibility of her helping with a session on the historic bridge. City Planner Wittman said she is not sure what that session proposal is, she reached out to MnDOT stating there is a desire to have the story of the bridge told. HPC Ordinance Amendment Update and Projected Schedule Ms. Wittman informed the Commission that the City has entered into contract with HKGi for the update to the City’s HPC enabling ordinance. City staff has met with the project leader, Jeff Miller, to discuss existing challenges and opportunities of the existing ordinances. The project scope calls for the creation of an advisory committee to help the HPC, staff and the consulting firm review and update the ordinances. At their last regularly-scheduled meeting, the City Council appointed nine individuals to the committee. They will help review draft proposals and provide feedback. She reviewed the project schedule. She said HPC members are not required at any of the sessions but are most welcome to attend. The entire community will be invited to provide input. 2020 Workplan Update Ms. Wittman alerted there is a lot going on right now. At the regularly-scheduled November 2019 meeting the HPC discussed the 2020 workplan and focused on identification of HPC-desired projects to occur in 2020. Several items have been put on the 2020-2022 workplan for Community Development Department staff. An RFP is about to go out regarding the Chestnut Street Plaza including the Main Street intersection. As part of the RFP, a work session with the HPC will take place. The Council made a bonding bill request for the remodeling/rehab of the Bergstein Buildings. If it is successful, in 2020-2021 the rehab will start for those buildings. Regarding the Lowell Park Pavilion, the City entered a contract with Collaborative Design Group and they are scoping the structure now. The Council included $15,000 in the 2020 budget to assess the Sunken Garden (behind historic post office across from Lowell Inn). The assessment will take place in 2020 with possible reconstruction in 2021. Ms. Wittman will apply for a grant for the 2021 Design Guidelines update. FYI Minutes Update Ms. Wittman provided clarification on how the City produces its minutes. City policy states that written minutes are the official record for the boards and commissions. They are done in summary, not verbatim. The City also retains all video and audio recordings. She talked with City Clerk who has said that when she has had circumstances where there is something that should be part of the record, she makes a note and asks the recording secretary to be sure to include it. So when the HPC looks through the minutes as they appear in the packet and feels strongly there is a perception, opinion, finding that is missing from the draft minutes, give her a call and it can be noted on the record in the meeting. Commissioner Finwall commented that she brought this up because she noticed that some things she said were in the minutes and other things were not. She thought that a summary is just bullet points without identifying who is saying what. She questioned who decides what she says or what another commissioner says is important to put in the minutes. It doesn’t always reflect what the person said accurately. She used to be a planning secretary and typed minutes. She pointed out that sometimes she reviews the minutes and realizes that she said a lot more than that. She wants to make sure the minutes are an accurate portrayal of Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting January 15, 2020 Page 3 of 6 the Commission. Where she works, summary minutes are just bullet points of what was discussed as a whole, not really one person said one thing and another person said something else. Ms. Wittman said she can again convey that to the City Clerk as an option. Commissioner Larson commented that in the end it’s on the Commission to review the minutes to make sure they are accurate. Everyone could do a better job of that. Short of including every comment verbatim, or summarizing and not being clear, he wondered if the whole direction of a particular decision would be clear if it were just a list of bullet points. He agreed it is very subjective. The person doing minutes is choosing what is included. Councilmember Junker said he is disappointed in Council minutes lately, because sometimes he is not even quoted and he said 10 minutes worth of remarks. He feels it is crucial that the person who made the comment is included. The tough part is how to summarize what was said from the standpoint of what is viewed as important. Ms. Wittman said she takes notes and provides the recording secretary with those notes. She can make sure what Commissioners feel strongly about is captured in the minutes. She asked the Commissioners to please convey that to her. Lowell Park Pavilion HSR Update Ms. Wittman said this was mentioned above. Valley Ridge Mall Sign Plan Appeal Ms. Wittman reported that the Council voted 3-2 to approve the Valley Ridge Mall amendment and variances to allow for Norman Quack’s duck to be on the building. Councilmembers Junker and Collins voted to deny. A resolution is being drafted that will be up for Council’s formal consideration at the upcoming Tuesday meeting. Councilmember Junker spoke about the Council meeting hearing. Frances Skamser Lewis was there and the sign man was there and said he was directed to create a very large, very attractive, noticeable sign with no dimensions in mind. The qualifications of the strip center were not even a consideration. After they presented, Commissioner Junker gave about a 6 minute dissertation on why he felt the City created the ordinance to be consistent within a multi tenant building and that it was crucial to maintain the standards for this multi tenant building. Then Councilmember Weidner moved to approve, the Council went to a vote and that was it. None of the Councilmembers who voted for it said why. He felt that was unusual. They created their own hardship. Staff will do findings of fact. He is not sure what will be there to justify how the Council voted in favor of it. He asked, is neon allowable there? Ms. Wittman replied neon is allowable. Exposed neon is not. There is plexiglass over the neon. The applicant made the argument that the neon was not truly exposed. Councilmember Junker said the applicant’s argument was, we love the sign, the sign is beautiful. Findings of fact will come back to the Council probably next week. Ms. Wittman said she is working with the City Attorney to draft those. Commissioner Larson said, so there is no variance, what was adopted is a new set of guidelines for that site? Councilmember Junker clarified only for that one site. Ms. Wittman said the Planning Commission denied it, the HPC denied it, and the Council conceptually approved it. Commissioner Finwall remarked when they came before the HPC they were basically throwing the sign company under the bus. So when they were before the City Council for the appeal, the applicants ended up throwing the HPC under the bus? Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting January 15, 2020 Page 4 of 6 Councilmember Junker said the sign company’s business is to create a fabulous sign to attract businesses to that site, but they have to meet the standards. Commissioner Walls pointed out that it’s still the burden of the applicant and sign designer to meet qualifications the City has set and obtain approval before putting it up. Now the City is back in the position of saying just leave it. To him this is upsetting. Councilmember Junker noted that everyone else in the building is within the sign band. Commissioner Finwall asked if it still needs a sign permit Ms. Wittman replied she will have to consult the City attorney but if the Council approves the resolution that approves the variance and alteration to the design permit, then de facto the City will have to issue the sign permit. Commissioner Finwall said she would think at a minimum the City could double fine the applicant for installing the sign without a permit. Chairwoman Mino asked, is this unique to this situation or will it change the sign plan? Ms. Wittman replied this will change the sign plan so any future tenant will be able to put 90 square feet of signage up on that corner and cover the architectural feature at that corner space. Councilmember Junker said, but every other tenant is obligated to comply with the current sign ordinance for that building unless they do the same thing. Commissioner Walls said, but that sets a precedent that if there is a sign plan in place for a building like that it’s null and void and people will say it’s there but it’s not. Commissioner Thueson asked, so after the Council vote, is it something tailored to that sign or is a full revamp of the sign plan? Ms. Wittman replied the appeal was for the duck in that location. They didn’t necessarily want to change the banner program. Their big argument was they want the duck in that location. Commissioner Thueson asked, do all multi tenant plans come before the HPC? Ms. Wittman replied it’s just the downtown district now that comes before the HPC. West Stillwater used to come before the HPC. If a new building in the West Stillwater is being constructed then they need to have a sign plan for that building. Staff ends up reviewing the newer ones if it’s an existing building. Commissioner Larson asked about a couple additional items. In the last meeting the Commission talked about the stone precast wall on Main Street. He asked if this will come before the Commission. Ms. Wittman replied it will come before the HPC in February. Commissioner Larson brought up the bent pipe issue in the center building, has anything moved on that? Ms. Wittman replied that the building official met with them and their contractors. The hearth with precast iron stove put in it was built in front of two plywood covered doors. It has a recess of about 20”. The building official found it acceptable to be in that recess. It won’t be flush mounted, it will come out about 8” but they are going to install a cap. She gave the OK since it was substantially compliant with HPC approval. The stovepipe will go away. Commissioner Larson asked about the deck project with the lift behind the Crosby. Will they do a final version? Ms. Wittman replied they are working on final design which will come back before the Commission. Councilmember Junker asked, is it still yellow tagged? Ms. Wittman replied the City gave them temporary occupancy for a set number of events they already had scheduled. City staff are working with them toward final building plans showing compliance. Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting January 15, 2020 Page 5 of 6 Commissioner Larson noted it would be interesting to go through 2019 and see how many projects came before the HPC that asked for forgiveness. It seems to be more and more of a trend. The HPC has even seen the City do this on more than one occasion where the work was done and they asked for forgiveness. The concerning thing is that it’s more and more of a pattern and sometimes it’s being done by people who obviously are taking advantage of the system. Ms. Wittman said she can provide that information. Commissioner Larson commented when developers, sign manufacturers or the City clearly should know and it still goes that way, then it’s getting out of hand. Commissioner Finwall asked, doesn’t the City catch a lot of this during the building permit process? Ms. Wittman replied sometimes it does not involve a building permit. When Commissioners see something that appears to be amiss they should give her a call. Planning and Zoning staff are not able to proactively police it. Councilmember Junker said the one project that stands out is the Mon Petit situation with a massive HV on the roof. There is no screening. It sticks out like a rocketship. Ms. Wittman said it did not come before the Commission. All the HVAC systems are getting massive. Commissioner Finwall said, so an internal process would be to route those permits to planners, engineers, and the building department. Commissioner Larson said at least everything that goes in for a permit should get reviewed by a City staff member that has the knowledge to decide if it should come before the HPC. That might mean every permit. Chairwoman Mino remarked in St. Paul, the HPC staff member has to sign off on any building permits that are related to historic buildings. Ms. Wittman replied she does too. The only time the Zoning Administrator will do a permit that the HPC has looked at is in the conservation district and he has that visual reference, this is what the HPC approved, this is what’s in front of him right now. He comes to her if there are questions. Beyond that, she does all downtown projects and most all commercial projects. If she remembers correctly, the Mon Petit Cheri was approved without any Planning/Zoning approval at all. It was just issued by the Building Department without any Planning/Zoning review. So she doesn’t really know what to do with something like that because technically the City issued it. Commissioner Larson asked, are there policies in place that say anything downtown that gets a permit should come by the City Planner? Ms. Wittman answered it’s just a case where the building inspector issued a permit without consulting with planning staff. Commissioner Larson said, the building inspector does know it’s not just building permits, it’s also mechanical, correct? Ms. Wittman replied as much as she has tried to educate them, sometimes they don’t. The Building Department is great. This is an off case. It was issued in January 2019. She has not had a chance to sit down with the Building Department staff and talk about it. The City has a pretty comprehensive process for all eyes on deck on all permits. Commissioner Larson said he stopped and looked at the pavilion and the rocking music and flashing lights and he was dismayed. He realizes it is part of the light show but the pavilion has flashing stars and music coming out of it. Councilmember Junker confirmed that was part of the Christmas light plan. Commissioner Larson said it seemed if anything would require review and consideration, it should be the pavilion. Heritage Preservation Commission Meeting January 15, 2020 Page 6 of 6 Ms. Wittman said she is trying to work with public works and senior staff. She wasn’t aware of it. Commissioner Larson explained the whole pavilion is covered with a moving light show. He is not against the light show, but he is against where it is on a historic structure. Commissioner Finwall remarked at the Washington County Historic Courthouse they had the new LED cool lights mixed with the warm lights. This is a pet peeve of hers. Ms. Wittman provided a verbal update that a letter came in regarding a planning case where there is resubdivision of property near the historic courthouse neighborhood and the owner next door is objecting. They included the HPC on the correspondence. This is a straightforward resubdivision. ADJOURNMENT Motion by Commissioner Thueson, seconded by Commissioner Walls, to adjourn. Motion passed, 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 7:53 p.m. Amy Mino, Chairwoman ATTEST: Abbi Wittman, City Planner