HomeMy WebLinkAbout1973-11-20 CC MIN
.
r:
'~
v
COUNCIL CJll\MBER
Stillwater, Minnesota
Npve~er 20, 1973
7;30 P. M.
REGULAR MEETING
The meeting was called to order by President Powell
The Invocation was given by Mr. Marshall.
Present:
councilmen Balfanz, Peterson, Thompson. Wohlers and President
Powell
Absent:
None
Also Present: City Coordinator, Marshall: City Attorney, Ki1llD81: Superin-
tendent of Public works, Shelton: Public Safety Director,
Abrahamson: Director of Parks and Recreation, Blekum: Con-
sulting Engineer, Elliott: Chairman of the planning a~9 zoning
Commission, Arndt: secretary of the Board of Water cOlllllliseioners,
Foster
Press: Stillwater Evening Gazette - Douglas Sietz
St. pauJ. Dispatch - James Broede
Citizens: orrin Thompson, Chuck Winden, Garry Thompson, Robert McGarry,
Robert Steindorff, calvert Cravath, Bob Kotz, Bob Karr, David
Warner, Stephen sweetland, Robert Lunzer, Robfitrt.RClfferty, Mrs.
Clyde Clayton, Mrs. Merrill campeau, owen Thomas, Robert Shaw,
Ron Anderson, Joseph Simonet, Sr., Representative from Barnett
Motors, Mr. & Mrs. Grover Simms, Darrell Thibodeau
IRD:IVIDUALS-DELEGATIONS-PBTITIONS
1. This was the day and time set for a Public Bearing on the request of Orrin
Tho..,son Homes for a revision in the preliminary plat of the Wl1dpines Sub-
Division.
The notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the
offlcial newspaper of the City on November 8, 1973 and copies were mailed to
all property owners within 300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
,.
ORRIN 'l'IIJIIPSOH - the location of the plat is adjacent to the County_ Road No.5,
croixwood Boulevard. Sunrise Avenue, and a park on the south. The request is
to change the TOwnhouses to single family homes which will result ln a reduction
from 230 to 92 units. Seventy percent of the land is to be open space - ground
space which would not be covered by streets or sidewalks.
ROBERT Ie GARRY, representing the School District 834, asked about the recommenda-
tions from the planning Coaunjssion which Mr. Marshall read at this time which were
the Findings of Fact from their November 5, 1973 meeting.
ORRIN THOMPSON made comments about the number of children that this change would
generate. Also he said that the people who buy the homes pay for the streets as
they are installed including thi sewer and water, a nd this would not be an added
cost to the City. Further that there would be sidewalks on both sides of Croix-
wood Boulevard and this is not a thru street, but rather a collector street
within the development. He said there would be more open grass space with the
92 single family homes as compared with the 230 Townhouses.
'.'OW'.'....
87
.
.
.
.
88
.
~
(November 20, 1973 - continued)
cc-
CALVERT CRAVATH, 2510 Hidden valley Lane, inquired about theparking setup
for Townhouses and MR. THOMPSON said that all have at least one garage per
unit and 80_ have double garages - parking space is not a factor here.. He
had met with four or five builders who have been building Townhouses in the
Metropolitan area and the market is rather saturated for the demand. He is
not going to build something that there is not a demand for.. The demand is
for the price bracket of the single family houses.
MR. Me GARRY stated that the School District is not opposed to this as they
were _in the bej.nning but they do become concerned when an overall plat ia
subject to change. Their main concern is the secondary school system which
i8 overcrowded at this time.
MR. THOMPSON said the single family housing of 92 homes could produce 164
children whereas 230 Townhouses would have 184 children, which is a net
result of 20 less children. These figures reflect .8 child per TownhoUse and
1.8 for single family dwellings.
r
MR. ARNDT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION stated that the figures he had showed .5
children from Metro Area Townhouses.
BOB ICOTZ.. 23090akridge Road.. stated that he was in favor of the mange to
single family dwellings. He was against the original plan for Townhouses
because of the aethestics which was not good. He felt there was plenty of low
cost housing in the area with Cimmarron which is much less expensive and it
would be morally wrong to demand a builder to build Townhouses for which there
is not is demand.
A CITIZEN inquired if he contracts ahead for the Townhouses or do they build them
for speculation.
MR. TB>>IPSON replied that they
groups of four.. six or eight.
until they get the others sold
fifty to .eventy thousand type
contract for them the same way - they are built in
If they get two-third sold, then they have to wait
to start building. The market for the.e in the
rath,"!r than the lower price brackets.
BOB ICARR.. 2807 woodridge Lane said that he transferred here from Chicago and he
read the article in the St. Paul paper referring to the forty thousand ghettos
occupied by the employees of the 3M Co. Only about thirty percent of the people
work for 3M. He first livea in Townhouses out by McKnight Road and there were a
lot of Townhouses behind them that were for sale and which did not sell. He felt
the area was quite saturatea with ToWnhouses. He further felt that the people in
croixwood were entitled to an apology for the article which appeared in the
newspaper.
MYOR POWELL asked how many in attendance from the Croixwood area were in favor
of the ToWnhouses (there were none) = opposed there were 8 to 10 hands shown.
ONE CITIZEN statea that he had lived in Townhouses and apartments and he was
opposed to them.
DAVID WARNER, 306 Maryknoll Drive, said that Cimmarron units are not selling and
wondered how the Council felt that Townhouses at $25..000.00 will sell. They
will just sit idle and become a slum as opposed to single family homes that are '-.....--
selling very well.
A MR. WINDSOR from Stillwater BOulevard said that he was told that there would
not be any Townhouses in this area and that a lot of the people would sell their
homes if Townhouses DDved in. If he wanted that,he would have stayed in st. Paul.
COUNCILMAN WOHLERS asked who told them that there would not be TownhoUses out
there and MR. THOMPSON said that on all of the literature that was given out when
a party contrclo~ted for a home showed this area with the Townhouses. They haa two
who haa contracted for Townhouses and one cancelled and the other party bought a
single family house.
S'l'BPHEN SWEETLAND. 214 Marylknoll Drive.. asked if this change is not made in the
plat what Mr. Thompson would do with this portion of the plat and MR. THOMPSON
said he would possibly sell the land.
ROBERT LUNZER, 2512 Countryside Court, asked if it mattered what the people out
there wanted and he did not know of anyone who wanted them.
MR. MARSHALL stated that the Council has not ruled on this. The planning
Commission haa recommende~ ~nat there not be a change
.
.
Ie
'-
.
.
.
.
(November 20. 1973 - continued)
MA~R POWELL stated that the Planning Commission approved the plan as originally
presented. The Council did not approve a revision in the plat and if they do not
approve it this evening it would sit idle or be sold to another party.
ROBERT RAFFERTY, 308 Edgewood Avenue, had lived in Townhou868 elsewhere and was
not in favor of them.
RESIDENT FROM OAK PARK HEIGHTS - asked how they estimate the demand for Townhouses
as she has lived in the area for sometime and is still looking for a home to buy
and they did look at the Croixwood Development and was very interested in the
discussions.
GARY THOMPSON said that they did put them in other areas in the wilderness area
and they did not sell.
"""
'"
MR. CALVERT CRAVATS said he is a newcomer to the area and felt the original plat
was established sometime ago and may be at some later date there would be a
market for this type of housing and we would be on the other end of the situation.
MR. I<<JTZ said that area was originally zoned for single family houses and that
it was changed to Townhouses and now it is being changed back.
ORRIN THOMPSON - the Council is aware of an overall plat has some changes in it.
One of the changes was adding sidewalks to all of the main streets in the plat.
It is up to the builder to decide what to build or what wi.ll sell. Some major
builders who have Townhouses have come to a standstill on them.
COlJNCILMAN WOHLERS said the whole thing is going to be a side show - they still
are not going to build them.
MR. PAFFERTY said we will have Townhouses that won't sell and the units will be
vacant.
COUNCILMAN THOMPSON said that if the School Board is interested in passing a
bond issue they will ne\7er do it with the older people who vote against it _
single family dwellings would bring in younger people who could be in favor of such
bond issues.
COUNCILMAN PB'l'ERSON questioned whether the School Board is there to see if they
can get people there to pass their bond issues.
MR. Me GARRY stated this area has not dev.eloped any great number of secondary
age children, but they have to come up with some change in this system. They
were never against this development and that it is everybody1s prOblem regarding
the schools, especially on the secondary level.
v
MR. DUANE ARNDT .aid that in their original concept for the Croixwood Development,
it would take from five to seven years and it is now only about 2~ years since
the original plat was started. With the approval of the Sixth Addition this
development will be done. There has been faster development than was originally
predicted, which makes an impact on the school district. No mention was made
of the substantial variation of the proposed Townhouse development except the
reading of the figures and he questioned whether this would make a difference in
the mill levy for capital expenditures.
ORRIN THOMPSON said that if everything goes as it has up to this point it could
happen six months sooner. If they go this route there will be 275 less units _
they will have less sales off the contract for single family dwellings than Town-
house contracts.
MIl. SWEETlAND asked if there would be any open space other than the green areas
or yards of the homeowners and MR. WINDEN said that 18.5% or the total land area
is open park space including the lake for 28%.
THE MAYOR CLOSED THE HEARING AT 8:25 P. M.
On motion of Councilman Balfanz, seconded by Councilman Thompson
a reso1utio"l was introduced "APPROVING THE CHANGE IN THE PRELIMINARY
PLAT OF THE WILDPINES SUB-DIVISION". (see resolutions)
'....,
.
."..~, .
89 ~
.
.
.
.
.
90
(November 20, 1973 - continued)
COUNCILMAN PETERSON - said two years ago the Planning commission felt and still
feel that this type of housing including Townhouses was good. They mayor may
not be selling at this time but they may be sellin'j in the near future. The
Planning commission has put in many, many hours and many, many people have
testified before them. He personally felt we should continue along the same
line as was planned and that the change in the plat be denied.
COUNCILMAN BALFANZ said he sat on the Planning commission for two years when
outlot "B" was changed and also felt that the Townhouse business was going
the other way and the planning Commission has had to make stipulations about
sidewalks.
COUNCILMAN PETERSON said there was to be 100 Townhouses in Outlot "B" which
left 220 Townhouses as part of this original plat. It did change the concept
somewhat, it not in total.
ORRIN THOMPSON explained at that time ten or fifteen percent were selling
and didn' t know why the mixture would be better.
COUNCILMAN WOHLERS said when this was brought up originally there was talk
about a bumper zone with some ~wnhouses here to be classified as a change.
COUNCILMAN THOMPSON said the Planning Commission is ~sking for this mix but
none of them live in croixwood and he had talked to other people in Croixwood
who are not interested in this mix and felt the council should be concerned
with the people in Croixwood and the immediate surrounding area.
VOTE ON THE I<<>TION - Ayes - councilmen Balfanz, Thompson and
President powell
Nays - Councilmen Peterson and wohlers
(see resolutions)
THE MAYOR DECLARED A RECESS FROM 8:35 TO 8i45 P. M.
2. A petition was received from residents on Maryknoll Drive in opposition 1:0 any
development plan which would result in Maryknoll Drive becoming a feeder
street to Interlachen Drive. (Signed by three property owners)
ROBERT KOTZ, 2309 oakridge Road, asked that an attempt be made to reduce the
traffic on Oakridge Road as this is an extremely narrow street.
STEPHEN SWEETIAml.214 Maryknoll Drive. said it was explained that the long range
planning was that there would be a main thoroughfare extending from Myrtle
Street extending West and that there would not be the thru traffic from this
area to Interlachen Drive. It was felt that there is no purpose in putting a
cul-de-sac on Maryknoll when there are three streets leading to Interlachen
Drive - Northland. Edgewood and Maryknol1.
DAVID WARNER, 306 Maryknoll D~ive. said there has been no available means to
control traffic on oakridge and no stop signs. On numerous occasions they
had had complaints filed with the City police about reckless driving.
On motion of Councilman Wohlers. seconded by Councilman Peterson
a resolution was introduced "ACCEPTING THE PLAT OF CROIXWOOD. FIFTH
ADDITION" with the recommendations of the Planning commission.
(see resolutioJ1s)
3. This was the day and t~me set for a public hearing on the request of Cyril
Mergens for a special use permit toqperate an office in ~ building zoned for
Multi-Family uses.
r
'~
'-
.
.
\.t
.
.
.
(November 20. 1973 - continued)
.
The notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the
official newspaper of the City on November 9, 1973 and copies were mailed to
all property owners within 300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
The Planning Commission recommended that the request be granted - See Findings
of Pact.
No one appeared or presented facts for oraqainst this request.
On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Wohlers
the Council followed the recommendations of the Planning Commission
and granted the Special Use Permit to Cyril Mergens.
,'-""
The residbdts from Linden Hill between Fourth and the deadend appeared at this
Council meeting with a petition requesting that the "No parking" signs on this
street be relocated. (see petition in the file).
4.
On DOtion of Councilman Thompson, seconded by Councilman Peterson
that the public Works Department install "No parking This Side"
signs starting on the North running up Third Street to the second
driveway at 208 West Linden and remove the signs there now as filed
in the petition and leave this way until we have another complaint.
5. On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Balfanz a resolution
was introduced "APPROVING THE CONCEPT PLAN FOR THE HI-RISE FOR '1'HB ELDERLY"
located at Second and Olive or another suitable site as recommended by the
Planning Commission. (see resolutions)
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
1. MR. UMMEL submitted to the Council his op1n10n regarding the Police Car
Sids which were opened on November 6, 1973. (See letter in the file)
On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman
Thompson, in view of the recommendations of the City Attorney and
the Public Safety Director that the bid for the three police cars be
awarded to the EriCkson Post company at a net bid price of $8,500.00.
2. A letter from the St. Croix Valley Area Chamber of Commerce was considered
at this time regarding Christmas lighting for the downtown. area. (no action)
\ .,
'-'
m.w BUSINESS
1. On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Wohlers the
following Escrow was approved:
$8,000 U. S. Treasury Bills
Maturity 4/25/74
Yie Id--8. 10
2. On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Balfanz a
resolution was introduced "EXTENDING THE CITY'S INSURANCE POLICIES TO
DECEMBER 31, 1973". (see resolutions)
3. Discussion was held regarding the claims against Orfei and Dependable
Suriacing on damages to cars and property.
"'--~
91
,I
.
.,
\
;0
\.1.
.
.
~ .
.
,/ 92
.\
(November 20, 1973 - continued)
4. On motion of Councilman Wohlers, seconded by councilman Thompson the
Public works Superintendent was directed to advertise for bids for
snow removal for the 1973-74 season.
S. On motion of councilman Peterson, seconded by councilman Balfanz approval
was given for a septic tank for a new home at 206 West poplar Street for
Robert Benson. (Contractor was Swager Bros.)
6. Discussion was held regarding the status of the Brickson Oil Station on
South ~in Street.
APPLICATIONS
On DDtion of councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Thompson a Tree
TriDlDing License was granted to Robert Haines. 9262 Otchipwe Avenue North,
Stillwater, subject to his paying the city $25.00 for the removal of a stump
at 1314 South Third street. (new)
On motion of Councilman peterson, seconded by Councilman Thompson a Junk
Dealerls License was granted to LaWrence Rumpf, 2009 Lake, Stillwater. (~eD8Wal)
From Jack Felix, 413 south Greeley Street for an "OFF SALE 3.2 BEER. license.
(First reading - renewal).
On IIIDtion of Councilman Balfanz, seconded by COuncilman Peterson the following
"On Sale Club Liquor- licenses were granted for. 1974 subject to the approval
of the Liquor Control Conmission: (renewals)
American Legion Post 48
George A. Membraz, Jr.
103 South Third Street, Stillwater
renewal
Fraternal Order of Eagles, Aerie #94
227 Souch Main st., Stillwater
renewal
Stillwater Lodge No. 179, B. P. O. ELItS
110 South Main Street, Stillwater
renewal
stillwater country Club, Inc.
North Fourth street, Stillwater
renewal
Greeder-Hinds-Comfort Post No. 323, VFW
124 North Main Street, Stillwater
renewal
Bonds and/or Dram Shop Insurance were also approved.
On motion of Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Balfanz the following
.OFF SALE LIQUOR" licenses were granted:
John L. Hinz - John's Bar
302 South Main Street, Stillwater
renewal
william C. Kinsel - Kinsel Liquor
Second and Chestnut Streets, Stillwater
renewal
Merl K. Meister
112 North Main St., Stillwater
renewal
Barry Leigh TOrgerson - Cut Rite Liquors
210 South Main Street, Stillwater
new
Also bonds and/or Dram Shop Insurance were approved.
r-
.
.
r-
\. t"
'-
.
.
.
- 9~":
.
(November 20, 1973 - continued)
~
COMMUNICATIONS
From James S. O'Brien of the simonet Furniture & carpet Company thanking the
police for a job well done his car was stolen and was recovered the next day.
From Mr. Haward J. Jiran. Director of District No. 834 Recreation Department
thanking the City of Stillwater for the use of the lighted softball field at
the Lily Lake Park for the cub football games.
CITY COORDINATOR'S REPORT
1.
The Arbitration on the police Department salaries should be received next
week.
o
2.
On motion of councilman peterson, seconded by Councilman Wohlers the
petition for the vacation of the remaining portion of Juniper Street was
accepted and the date of January 11, 1974 at 7:30 P. M. was set for the
public hearing_
-
CONSULTING ENGINEER f S REPORT
None
Mr. Elliott was asked to check on the following items:
1.
Report on the wall on Second and Linden Street through the rell'Oval of trees
in this area (Linner p~operty)
2. Quotes on the Il'Onitors for the lift stations
3. Mr. Elliott and Mr. Marshall to work out an agreement with Maple Island
about the purchase of a meter for their well.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
PUBLIC SAFE'l'Y
1. There was a request for RNo parkingM on the north side of Linden Street
between North Third and North Fourth Street.
-
2. The officers will be attending the State School for police and Fire three
or four bours per night for four weeks to be qualified.
3.
On Il'Otion of Councilman Thompson. seconded by councilman Wohlers the Public
Safety Department in conjunction with the Public Works in conjunction with
the Library Board that there be a permanent barcade installed at the East
end of their parking Lot.
v
4. The Boy Scouts have completed the painting of the hydrants ann we can
proceed now to publish the resolution and their picture at this time.
PUBLIC WORIW
No Report
ADMINISTRATIVE
No Report
'-"'
I
.
.
\.'
.
.
.
.
f
.!
I
\
94
(November 20, 1173 - continued)
PARKS AND RECREATION
No Report
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
No Report
ORDDlANCES
None
RESOLDTIOIIS
The following resoutions were read and on roll call were adopted:
1.
Approving the Change in the pr.limina~y plat of the Wildpines Sub-
Division- (Councilman Peterson and wohlers opposed)
26 Accepting the plat of Croixwood, Fifth Addition.
3. Approving the concept Plan for the Hi-R13e for the Elderly
4. Extending the City's Insurance Policies to December 31, 1973.
AD.lOtJRNMBNT
On motion of Councilman Thompson, seconded by councilman Wohlers the .sting
adjourned at 9:45 P. M.
~~~.
Mayor
Atte&Y~CI1
City Clerk
.
r
c-\
.-
\.
-
"-.
.
'--
.