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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1970-11-16 CPC MIN MINJTES OF PLANNING AND ZONING COIXliiISSION Regular Meeting November 16, 1970 7 :30 P. M. Present: Duane Arndt, Chairman Gene Bremer Harold Hohlt Sidney dihren Jack Shelton e The meeting was called to order by Chairman Arndt. Mr. Arndt : I received calls from Mr. Condon, Mr. Carlson and Xr. Kalinoff; they indicated to me they will not be present at this me6tingo As there is a quorum present, we will proceed with the business on the „ agenda. Mr. Hohlt moved that the minutes of the previous meeting (October 19, 1970) be approved; Mr. Wihren seconded the motion. (all in favor) .. Mr. Arndt: The items scheduled on the agenda tonight are (1) Application from Richard Slachta to remodel portion of property located at 223 South Main Street. (2) Application from Happy Otte for rezoning of property at 515 N. Owens Street - from Two-Family to Commercial. (3) Petition from John W. Hooley, Charles M. Hooley and E. Robert T. iueson for vacation of a portion of Commercial Avenue. (4) Request from hr. and Mrs. Thomas Evenson for a side yard variance for 708 Harriet Drive. (5) Petition from David Magnuson for vacation of Forward Street. (6) Discussion of proposed amendments to Zoning Ordinance 383 with respect to fencing, and general changes in the zoning ordinance if time permits. Gentlemen, one of the city ' s attornies is present and has requested that he be given the floor for comments regarding amendments on the fencing ordinance. If you have no objections, I will give him the floor now. Mr. Peterson: We received a request from this commission to explain the proposed ordinance and we were a little bit surprised. We :,Fere originally asked to propose an ordinance for discussion and we attempted to draft an ordinance that woulc- establish some limitations; we didn't know if they would be too strict or not strict enough. Consequently, when we were asked to come up and explain or defend this ordinance we were sur- prised. . . . . On corner lots there has always been a restriction on fences. . . we have proposed restrictions where none now exist. Apparently there was concern over this that prompted that we be asked to draft an ordinance - we would redraft it to conform to your ideas. I,:r. :irndt: It ' s more restrictive in land use than the ordinance itself. . l-ir. Peterson: This is the sort of thing we would like you to consider and note - we just put this out as a starting point. . ',r. Arndt : Is there any demonstrated need at this time for a fencing ordinance of any type? �Ir. Peterson: I wouldn't care to take a position on that - we were asked by the City Council to draft an ordinance - it would be a decision for that body to make. -2- Nr. Arndt: Are there any complaints that you know of? Yr. Peterson: No; we have not had any - Harold (Kimmel) might have heard some, but I haven 't. Mr. Bremer: Harold mentioned spite fences - is this a very prevalent thing? I4Ir.. Hohlt: It could hap Den. Mr. Peterson: Any limitations that you want put in it (the ordinance ) can be put in it, Mr. Hohlt : Is there any way you can think of that would make it so it wouldn 't be so tough on a person with a reversed corner lot? Dir. Peterson: That ' s no problem - we could put something in. Mr. Arndt: hat is your feeling about front yard fences? The maximum height is two and a half feet - nothing higher than three and a half feet. We have a lot of funny shaped lots in this town; do you want that kind of absolute restriction? r. Mr. Wihren: As long as there is no immediate hurry about- this fencing ordinance, I think we should look it over some more and then make a decision. Mr. Arndt: We will try to give you some idea of our thinking. Mr. Bremer: What about the air space - how do you enforce that? Mr. Peterson: There doesn't need to be anything like that in there - we can fix that; it just calls attention to the fact that this might be another item to consider. Mr. Arndt: l'hank you for taking the time to come up. Mr. Peterson: We will look forward to hearing from you. Mr. Arndt : 1dr. Slachta, will you explain what it is you are requesting from the Planning Commission? Mr. Slachta: Yes. I would like to remodel the third floor of my building for living quarters. I was told I would have to get special permit to do this. Mr. Arndt: This is a request for residential in commercial. Mr. Hohlt : You are going to have a front and rear stairway? Mr. Slachta: 'There is a fire escape in the back. Mr. Hohlt: It ' s adequate? Mr. Slachta: Yes. N.r. ,,lihren: i]hat is on the second floor? Mr. Slachta: There was a pool hall there - it' s now empty. Mr. Arndt: This abuts on mater Street? Mr. Hoalt: 1:1ater Street on the back - Main Street on the front. Mair. Arndt: :]hat is on the first floor? -3- Mr. Slachta: A retail surplus store. The apartment will be looking toward the river, and this is where the fire escape is. N"ir. Hohlt: Hots do you gain access? Mr. Slachta: From the front of the building. Mr. Wihren: There is nothing up there now? Mir. Slachta: Storage - it ' s all empty. Mr. Arndt : have you had the fire inspector up there? I1r. Slachta: I have show this to the buildin,- inspector - he thought it would be alright because of the back fire escape. I-Ir. Arndt: Because of the age of the building, I would be inclined to feel that the state fire marshall might not always be in agreement with what we want to say. . Mr. Slachta: I am going to live up there - it 's for my own personal use it ' s not going to be rented or anything. . Mr. Arndt: About how many square feet are there? Mfr. Slachta: About two thousand - two thirds of the building. Mr. Arndt : Do you have any children at the present time? Mr. Slachta: No. Mr. Arndt: Do you gentlemen have any further information that you want? Mr. Wi.hren: I watched them reraodel the downstairs - they removed a lot of fire hazards from the downstairs - it looks real good. Mr. Hohlt : I move that we recommend that the Ccu ncil approve the request subject to approval of the fire marshall. Mr. Wihren seconded the motion. (all in favor) . Mr. Slachta: 14hat do I have to do now? IIr. Arndt : Our recommendation will go to the Council; their next meeting is one week from tomorrow night. You will get a letter from us stating what we are recommending. Mr. Shelton: I think we should refer this to the Public Safety Director; then if he thinks it should go to the fire marshall he can follow up on that. See Wally Abrahamson, that ' s all he would have to do. Mr. Arndt: hr. Otte? Mfr. Otte : IV name is Ralph B. "Happy" Otte. I have been in business in Stillt.,ater for twenty-five ycars. . . . I bought this building in 1857 and was under the understandin that it was commercial then. . .it' s to be used as a beauty shop for my daughter. I used that space for a pool hall - it ' s classed as a two-family dwelling, but no family has ever lived in that space. I oaid �i700.00 in taxes when I first bought the building, I now ray "p1, 680.00 in taxes. : ohlt : :J'hen we went into the rezoning, do you remember if they gave you a s,.ecial use permit for that? Mr. Otte : This is under the Grandfather Law. Mr. Hohlt : Would you object to changing this to a special use permit? Mr. Otte : Say I am askinCD g you for a special use permit for a beauty parlor, if I ever change it I would have to come back and ask for another permit? There is no limit to special use permits? Mr. Hohlt: You can keep on in the same business that 's there. . Mr. Otte : It doesn't make any difference to me, gentlemen - it 's going to be a beauty parlor for my daughter. Mr. Arndt : If we grant a petition for rezoning there are two things that can happen that are undesirable; number one is that it ' s spot zoning, and number two is that we lose all control. If something were to ha:a-pen to you and it were zoned commercial, the city would have no control over what -oes in there as lonm as it 's a commercial use. We can't issue special use permits . The Planning Commission intends to recommend to the City Council that the zoning ordinance be revised regarding the way special use permits can be issued. I don't pretend to speak for the other members of the Planning Commission, but if you can wait, maybe the ordinance will be amended in a sufficient amount ofr time so that it can be done. Mr. Otte : I have bought beauty parlor equipment - the woman is asking for her check - I would like to start as soon as we can. Mr. :I7ihren: Can't we recommend that the City Council issue a special use permit? Mr. Arndt : Under our ordinance we can't issue special use permits. (Mr. Arndt then put the following question to Mr. Kimmel, City Attorney, who happened to be in the building at this time) 3; In a two family district, under our present ordinance, is it possible to issue a special use permit for a beauty shop? Mr. Kimmel: This came up one or two times before and we came to the conclusion that you couldn't do it - only if the beauty shop would be considered a home occupation and it really isn't - just like a barber shop isn't. Mr. Otte : This has never been used as a residence. Mr. Kimmel: it 's a non-conforming use; the ordinance says a non-conform- ing- use can't be changed to another non-conforming use. Mr. Otte : What are we sur:posed to do with a high priced piece of property? There isn't one neighbor that 's against it. Mr. Kimmel : The only think you can do is have it rezoned. Mr. Hohlt : Is there any way we can zone it for just one business? Mr. Kimmel: lie have done this a couple times - our ordinance is not set up for this, but we have done it. We could rezone it and restrict the use to a very limited category. We have done this and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Mr. Bremer: ;ghat is the difference between that and a special use permit? Mr. Arndt : None, really. Mr. Arndt : 111 -his arca i<,rer once, C��. - Business District - the use would be a pc '" r t ,oc use under Section 14, 1G (zoning ordinance) . What I vroulo 'nave : o ,osed is t'Ll at :e r �c o~-.,.pend to the Council that it be limited -�;o a s."eci f is use as set" forth in the ordinance, but the categories are so very broad; you could definitely open up a beauty shop, but you could also upen a laundry. I see difficulties with this, but we can try -5- it. If this is ',That you wish to recommend, the chair will entertain the motion. Mr. Hohlt : I move to recommend that it be rezoned to Business District, limited to a beauty shop. Mr. Wihren: Second. Roll call on the motion was as follows : Mr. Bremer: Aye 1�&. Hohlt Aye Mr. ;,Ji'aren Aye -vir. Shelton Aye Mr. Arndt: Aye Mr. Otte : Thank you for your efforts. -Mr. Arndt: Do you wish to recommend that the hearing be waived? Mr. Hohlt: No. Mr. Arndt : Iviy personal thought is to let the Council decide this ir.ssue themselves. Mr. Robert Thueson: I am here substituting for Charlie hooley. We have a petition(before the Council) for the vacation of a part of Commercial Avenue to have a truck loading zone. We were granted a permit by the City Council to go ahead with this - something went wrong and now I am - up here to show it to you. (Mr. Thueson presented a large drawing of the area in question) This is the former Connolly (Shoo ) building; we are in L-ho basement and are presently loading and unloading in the alley.. Our suppliers are having trouble getting in here - there is a lot of congestion so we are petitioning for the vacation of fourteen feet for loading area. There will be a railing around it and it will extend out fourteen feet - seven feet into the street. It leaves a street width of twenty-nine feet. Mr. Arndt : Do you anticipate a canopy of some type would be placed over it? Mr. Thueson: No. Mr. Hohlt: You will have that so full of water. . . . Mr. Thueson: There is a drain. ?;that we are also trying to obtain is a place to bring the meat in - we want to get it in on floor level. The park area to the south of the building isas donated and we can't come. more than two feet to the south side of that building, according to that agree- ment. Mr. Arndt : You indicate that you are the majority property owners abutt- ing on this street, but you don't own both sides. Mr. Thueson: No, but we have a petition which was turned in to the City Council. . I•ir. Hohlt: The people that have been calling me that are against it is something terrible. Bliss said if we do this he wants fourteen feet too. It 's up to the Council, but there are so many people against it. Mr. -lihren: There are so many restrictions, but if you don't do something you are going to drive business out of our town right and left. -6- Mr. Arndt: How long have you owned this building? Mr. 'ihueson: Two years. Mr. Arndt : And you bought it with the knowledge that you were going to use it for a wholesale meat company? Mr. Thue s on: Yes. Mr. Arndt : And you knew that you were going to have problems getting trucks in and out? Mr. Thueson: Yes. 1Pir. Arndt: How would the denial of this affect your business? Mr. `Inueson: It would be very inconvenient. Mr. Arndt : Is the granting of this necessary for you to continue your business? Pir. Thueson: Not necessarily. Yir. 'Wihren: How many employees do you have? Air. Thueson: Forty-five people - we hope to grow and we have been growing. Mr. Arndt: How about the general citizenry of Stillwater? How will this help him? l'r. Thueson: I don't suprose it will benefit him directly unless we find this a problem and we say, let 's move out. The tax base would mean something to the citizens of Stillwater. Mr. Arndt: How will this affect traffic? l`r. Thueson: I don't know if it will affect it any more than it is now. Mr. Arndt: Will you add to the congestion in any way? Mr. Thueson: I don't think so; I think it will alleviate it. Mr. Hohlt: The buildings directly next to you - how will- this affect their property? - Mr.' Thueson: They have signed our petition. Mr. Hohlt: It ,Trill be tough for those people to drive in. They asked to have the sidewalk vacated some time ago and we granted that - not vacated, but we gave them a permit to tear it up - there ' s been a lot of trouble since then - we took the meters out and they have been using it for private parking. Mr. :^7ihren: 1,1ho can get signs on a street for private parking?! Pair. "ohlt: Has it ever been brought to the Public Safety Director as to hazard? Mr. Shelton: I don't think he is aware of it, but it could be brought to his attention. Mr. Arndt : [,That if a car were to drive down that street at night and run into it? ^aat would be the liability of the City? P;- -7- Mr. Hohlt: If we do this, you are going to get a lot of people calling and asking for the same thing. Xr. Arndt: Anything else you wish to bring to our attention at this time? j Mr. Thueson: No. Mr. Bremer: This CMF Building is vacant now, isn't it? Air. Hohlt: There is a little shack in here (indicating on drawing), but this other building is going to be occupied now. iir. Thueson: We 're not asking; for something on Pine Street - this is not a residential area. I don't think it 's going to be all that inconvenient for them to have that here - it 's really a commercial area. We had a petition for the South Hill store to enlarge our parking lot - the citizens didn't want it so we dropped it. We 're not looking for things that are going to cause problems - this is a very commercial place. Other than that I do not have any other arguments. 7o you want these drawings? Mr. Arndt: Yes, if we could keep them for now. . .we will advise you of our recommendation. Mr. Thueson: Thank you. Mr. Arndt: fir. Evenson, you're next on the agenda. Ivir. Thomas Evenson: (indicating on drawing) This is the lot we own on the corner of I-iorningside and Harriet - Lot 13, Block 3; our problem is we have a house plan which we are sold on but it' s too tight for the lot, and we are asking for a variance of the side yard. Mr. Shelton: He has a full 38% setback. Tr. Hohlt : Does this satisfy your covenants? It really isn't our business to get into covenants, but. . : Mr. Evenson: Yes, we are o.k. We satisfy everything but this side yard. Mr. Hohlt : You want a variance of how many feet? YLr. Evenson: Ten feet. Mr. Hohlt : He should have a twenty foot side yard and is asking for a ten foot side yard? Mr. Elvenson: Ten foot maximum - we may not go that far. It is a monstrous lot, but the buildable area isn't that big. .Mr. Hohlt : The covenant runs with the land - if you violate covenants, you have trouble .getting a loan. Mr. Evenson: How can a covenant override the city ordinance? Mr. Hovilt: To make it a more restricted area. Mr. Arndt : Do you have any further questions you want to ask Xr. Evenson? Mr. Hohlt: If the people next door don't object to it. . . -8- Mr. Arndt : The fact twat the City Council may ,grant the variance would have no significance whatsoever as to the covenants. I think we can proceed :-rith whatever recommendation you wish. . . I think we have all the information we need from you. We will make our recommendation to the Council and you will get a letter from us. You may. stay if you wish. Thank you for coming and being so patient. CD (i-Ir. Evenson left the meeting) P1r. David Magnuson: (Petition to vacate Forward Street - - see minutes of October 19,, 1970, for background information) . Mr. NIechelke and I represent 1001".) of the abutting property owners on both sides of the street here (indicating on drawing) . Essentially, what we have to be most concerned about in this area is the future potential of the residential area in a few years. I^What will probably happen is that Stillwater Avenue will be extended out in this area, and also St. Croix Avenue; with that in mind, Jerry and I feel that, since we own 100% of the land on both sides of this vacation, we would like t;o 'have that piece vacated. c Mr. Hohlt: You are sure that piece on the other side has been vacated? Mr. Shelton: Yes, it ' s vacated. Mr. Wihren: I went out there yesterday to look and couldn't see how you would get in there. Mr. Hohlt : hat did Mr. Elliott (City Engineer) say in his letter? For your information, people have called me up and asked when this was coming up to be vacated if they should be down here because they want to object to it - I said no, not until it comes before the Council for hearing. Mr. Ma>�vnuson: �,`he one who most strenuously objects to it is the owner of blocks one and five, Bob Houston - he is concerned about future development and being cut off without any access. Mr. Hohlt : Where would Ayer's property be? And Peterson' s? Mr. Kagnuson: In the unplatted area - if that street was ever extended south there would have to be a condemnation of additional land. I think he is right in being concerned about that, but this is going to be developed out there and Stillwater Avenue will be going out - this is what will give these back lots access. Mr. Arndt: It would have to be platted - the City could make that a condition of accepting the plat.- Mr. lat.Mr. Hohlt : What did our engineer figure should be done with St. Croix Avenue? Mr. Shelton: He thinks we should find out who legally owns it - have the City attorney pursue it. Mr. Arndt: The City Engineer indicated to me that he is of the opinion that St. Croix Avenue should be graded, and at minimum, graveled, and as soon as possible. Mr. Kagnuson: We would highly recommend that that also be done. 11r. Arndt : Other than the fact that you are in a rersonal difficulty, is there any reason why the City should vacate Forward Street at this time? v-1hat benefit to the City of Stillwater will accrue by vacating the street? -9- Mr. Magnuson: I personally feel that the road, in the forseeable future, will not be put through - this land could be on the tax rolls right now. I think I mentioned before that Mr. Moen is not interested in Forward Street - he has a lot of access on Owens. Mr. Bremer: 11Iiat about Knefelkamp and Peterson, etc. ? 14hich lots do they own? 1'1r. Magnuson: This is going to be prime development area out there. Mr. Hohlt: If we do something wrong now we will always regret it. Mr. Magnuson. Our position essentially is this - our primary concern is what we are CD going to do with that in the future. Since we own 100% of the pro»erty, we can't see how any property rights but ours are going to be affected by this. 11r. Hohlt : I can see where lots one and five would be concerned. Mr. Magnuson: But do you agree that Stillwater Avenue is going totgo through, Harold? Mr. Hohlt : I still think we have to consider those other people. Mr. Magnuson: 14r. Gannon thought he owned property on the other side of the road, but it ' s on the other side of St. Croix Avenue - he thinks I have pulled one over on him. . . Mr. Shelton: He still thinks he owns it. Mr. Magnuson: He clearly doesn't own it. He is wild about this and is going to protest very loudly about the vacation. Mr. Hohlt: I for one would lii,: t10 get the whole deal straight on St. Croix :?venue - who owns it, what we should do with it, etc. Mir. Magnuson: Here is the survey - it shows that the property that Jerry and I now own is to the bottom of the road; we would like to convey that to the City. I,Lr. Hohlt: If I owned these two lots I would want to know if this was going to be opened up, etc. That 's the only way these people can get to their property. Arndt: Is there anything further you need from these gentlemen? You can stay if you wish. Mr. Magnuson: Is there any further question you have of us? Mr. Hohlt: No. Mr. Arndt : Thank you for coming. (Mr. l�lanuson and Mr. Mechelke left the meeting) I1r. Arndt: The engineer said St. Croix Avenue should be put in the platted area as soon as possible. Mr. Hohlt: If we start vacating streets just to give people land. . . nothing has to be done on this right affray, so I move that we just table this and think about it and ask for further clarification from the City �:ngineer regarding St. Croix Avenue, Mr. Bremer: Second. (all in favor) Mr. Arndt: ?,That do you want to do about the Hooley petition? .r. Hohlt : I an not in favor of it. Mr. Bremer: I asked a couple peo~,-,le about it - the word must really be out on it. . . T,lr. Arndt : I have not heard anyone say that are favorably inclined. Mr. Hohlt : Furthermore, I don't like to make a definite committment until I get some information from our public safety director. A Mr. Bremer: We could have the liability. Xr. Arndt: Not only that, but what if we undertake substantial street improvements - what kind of difficulties will take place? What additional cost will the city have to bear to go around this thing? And the drainage. Mr. Shelton: alaen they proposed this in the beginning it was going to be a building and it was fifty feet long - now it 's forty-three feet. r. Mr. Arndt: We do have to make a recommendation. Mr. Wihren: Mr. Condon said he didn't want to do anything to jeopardize Hooley' s business, but he would go along with what the others decided. . Mr. Arndt: This is being constructed to make it more convenient for themselves - no one is going to be put out of a job. They bought the building knowing the conditions. Unless there is a demonstrable public need, I can't see any need for granting it. They are a substantial tax payer and where possible they should be given consideration, but where do we stop? Mr. Shelton: lite car count on that street for twenty-four hours is about twelve hundred. I,lr. Bremer : You figure the accident potential of one thousand cars and then add another hazard. . . Mr. Wihren: It 's convenient for them and easier for them to unload. Mr. Arndt : But they were aware of that when they bought it. Do you feel you want to hold up further action on the Hooley matter until our next meeting? hr. Bremer: I don't feel there is any reason for it except for their oti`rn convenience. Mr. Hohlt : 'mere has to be some action on it tonight. Xr. Shelton: Yes, we should make a recommendation tonight - they are going to have the hearing on it. Mr. Hohlt: I will make a motion that the petition for vacating a portion of Commercial Avenue be denied. Mr. Bremer: Second. Roll call on the motion was as follows : !fr. Bremer: Aye 1,Tr.. rlohl t: Aye :lir. -!ihren: Opposed hr. Shelton: Aye "1r. Arndt: Aye -11- Mr. Arndt: For hr. Lvenson, do you propose to recommend granting of a variance :-providing that it meet with- the' filed covenants? CD Ns. Bremer: MLay would we grant a variance on a newly granted subdivision if it 's not a question of the lot? I had to build a house to fit my lot. I can sympathize with people who are stuck, but. . . !°Ir. Arndt : That 's a valid point - he wants to build a house that 's too big for his lot, that 's what it -amounts to. Mr. ii ren: I would like to see him build - he evidentally has his heart set on that type of home. We have used flexibility in other cases, I think ,e, could in this gentleman ' s case. Mr. Arndt: I have to disagree with you - he is asking for a very substantial .variance; if it were only a foot or so it would be different. :Lr. Shelton: I can't see why they can't get this house on there if it was placed in a different spot on the lot - then he wouldn't need a variance. Mr. Hohlt: Let him build it that way then. Mr. Arndt : Do you want to make a recommendation? Mr. Bremer : I move that the petition for variance on Lot 13, Block 3 be denied. Mr. Hohlt: Second. (all in favor) ADJOURNY NT On motion of Mr. Wihren, seconded by 111r. Hohlt, the meeting adjourned at 10:00 P. M. (next meeting will be held on November 30, 1970, 7 :30 P. M. )