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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1970-10-19 CPC MIN MINUTES OF PIANNING AND ZONING CO'kMISSION Regular Meeting October 19, 1970 7:30 P. M. J Present: Duane Arndt, Chairman Donald. Carlson John Condon Harold riohlt Myron 11,7elstrom Jack Shelton The meeting was called to order by Chairman Arndt. - Mr. Arndt : The items regularly scheduled on the agenda tonight ape (1) Adoption of the uniform street sign system. (2) Applications from David Magnuson and Jerry I,iechelke for street variances, and they will be here at 9:00 o 'clock as tl-Lley have previous commitments. (3) Discussion of proposed amendments .to Zoning Ordinance 383 with respect to fencing. Also, general revisions of the Zoning Ordinance if time permits. Dr. and Mrs . (Jon) Stratte are here - they are not on the agenda, but if you choose to do so we can waive the ten day filing requirement. hr. Carlson: I move that we waive the ten day filing requirement. Mr. Hohlt : Second. (all in favor ) Mr. Arndt : Do you wish to take the Stratte matter first since they are here? Mr. Carlson: Yes, I move we discuss the Stratte matter. Mr. Melstrom: Second. (all in favor) Mr. Arndt: :could either of you who intend to act as spokesman indicate to the Planning Commission what it is you request and your ,general plans. Dr. Stratte : We live at 114 Lakeside Drive in Stillwater; we would like to have a variance of the code so that we may put an addition on to our present house which would run 10 ' 8" from the boundry between my lot, which is Lot L on Lakeside Drive. This has met the approval of the adjoining lot owners, Robert and Jean Groth of 116 Lakeside Drive, who agreed to the variance for this addition. Mr. Arndt: How old is your house, Dr. Stratte? Dr. Stratte : rive years. Mr. Carlson: 1Jiay we see the plot plan, Dr. ? Iv1r. Condon: This isr_'t something you would conceivably want to use as a driveway, is it? Dr. Stratte : No. . . .t1 is land slopes down about forty-five degrees here. -2- 11r. i.ielstrom: What is the proposed additi on? Mr. Carlson: He is proposing a deck. Mr. Hohlt : Would you still have steps? These steps aren't included in tl-�e variance? NIr. Arndt: How wide is the deck going to be? Mr. Carlson: About Six and a half feet. Mr. Hohlt: You think that would include the stairs? Dr. Stratte: We weren't- going to come out any closer to the line than 10 ' 8" . Mr. Carlson: I don't think that' s going to cause any problem. Mr. Arndt: :That is the projected width of the addition? Dr. Stratte : 121 6", Mr . Carlson: It T,o uldn t t give the appearance of crowding at all.c Mr. Arndt : Any further discussion? Mr. Carlson: I move that we recommend the variance be granted. Mr. Hohlt : Secord . . (all in favor) Mr. Arndt: Our recommendation will go to the City Council - they may or may not grant it, and in all probability they will require a hearing. Mr. Carlson: Do they need a hearing on a variance? Mr. Arndt: The City Council can waive a hearing if they wish, but in any case our reco=endation will go to the Council and it 's now in their hands. Dr. Stratte : Thank you very much. h[r. Arndt: The second item is the uniform street sign system. If you remember, we had a presentation by the Counter 1n-�ineer on the uniform street sign system. I heard some residents of Oak Park discussing this they were not very pleased to have their address changed, plus the five or six digit number they now have for an address, My personal reaction is that I am against it. If one were living in a rural area where identification is necessary it would be desirable, but we live in a very distinct corzaunity. Mr. Hohlt : ti:ihat if we dzould annex more property to the City of Stillwater? Mr. �irndt : In new areas, but in existing areas I am particularly not in favor of it. N1r. Carlson: are they doing in communities such as Bloomington, Edina, Roseville, etc. ? Mr. Arndt : It ' s my understanding that Hastings has decided not to adopt it. Mr. Hohlt: Before i,e started this, the postmaster came to me and asked that we start ;riding the county. Mr. Arndt : I can see it for rural areas. -3- M?. Hohlt: For delivery men - there are so many new developments in the county - they will met a street name and don't know where to look for it. Nor. Carlson: '.%rould this aid them in the City of Stillwater for speeding up their deliveries? 1 Mir. Hohlt : Probably not. . . Mr. Arndt: Stillwater is a historic town - if you are going to change all the street names you are going to lose a lot of historical significance. Mr. Carlson: I want to know what is being done in cormunities such as Crystal, Bloomington, Edina, etc. Mr. Condon: Hy impression when the gentlemen were here is that established communities are not goin.g with it. Mr. 1,1elstrom: We have one area at the south end of town where avenues and streets run the same way - this is a problem for strangers. a r. Mr. Hohlt : I still think that am annexation to C`_tT of Stillwater should fit in lith the uniform street naming of the county. Mr. Arndt: I would have no objection to amending the subdivision ordinance to have new plats and new land coincide with the county system. Mr. Melstrom: If the tirrE comes that Stillwater streets will all be extended out to the higaway, and I still think it ' s going to come some day, does the county take Stillwater' s names or does Stillwater take the Countyts? N1r. Shelton: They have already given some people in the City of Stillwater county numbers; it 's County Road #5 to us. Mr. Arndt: This (grid system) doesn't even have the approval of the 11,letropolitan Council. DIr. Shelton: He (county engineer) said it will cost us six thousand even if we use- our own poles. Mr. Melstrom: And we 've been trying to cut the budget down now. Mr. Arndt: If you feel you are prepared, I think we should send a letter to the Council. Mr. Melstrorr.: I T,:ould like to move that we do not follow the grid system as suggested by Washington County. Mfr. Arndt: Do you wish to include all of the City including annexed areas? Mr. 1,`'ielstrom: I would think that at the time of annexation, most of the streets ?•:ould be already designated. Mr. Arndt: I don't chink we are so concerned about street names as we are numbering. Mr. Shelton: I second 1r. 1'Ielstrom's motion. Mr. Arndt: As I un^erst _nd the motion, you wish to transmit -to the City Council that we do not recommend the adoption, of the uniform street numbering system for the City of Stillwater, including any property which might subsequently become annexed to the City. Mr. Hohlt: I am opposed. (The remaining members were in favor of the motion) . -4- Mr. Hohlt: I would like to have it easier for out of town people to locate (addresses ) . Mr. Arndt: Unenever a neva plat comes in, encourage the developer to use tba uniform street numbering system. You can move that the sub- division ordinance be a:ci ended to include uniform street naming. J Mr. Hohlt: You 've got to have the number with the street name in order to locate it. Mr. Arndt : Then itis impossible. Mr. Arndt: The next item is the fence ordinance. May I ask you how this ordinance originated, if. you know? Mr. Melstrom: No. I don't. Mr. Arndt: I have not found many communities in the Twin Cities area who have an ordinance like this. r. Mr. Melstrom: Z-dhat if we said hedges and plantings - there are problems with those. Mr. Arndt: As I read the proposed ordinance it would significantly depreciate the value of property if you want privacy. Mr. Hohlt: Especially on reverse frontage lots - you have to go to the ruling on side yards. Mr. Shelton: Even the side yard one isn't too hot - at the rear of your house you should be able to build it five feet high. Mr. Condon: I think fences do more good than harm basically„ Mr. Arndt: I can see requiring a building permit for constructing a fence. IvTr. Hohlt : Did anybody check the county? Mr. Shelton: This is su-oDosed to be the county 's (ordinance) 'according to Mr. Kimmel. That 30 air space would be hard to enforce. N1r. Arndt: Do you think a fence ordinance is desirable -or necessary? Mr. Hohlt: Yah; I can recall several instances where there has been some feuding. Mr. Arndt : tell, the question is, do you wish to impose this kind of additional restriction on property owners? Second, have there been that many instances in the City of Stillwater with respect to fences? Mr. Hohlt : I think there should be something in there to stop a spite fence. Mr. Arndt: How do you do that, and what is a spite fence? Mr. Shelton: It should be required that it not be right on the line because most fences need maintenance. Mr. Carlson: I think we need one . Mr. Arndt : Do you grant to adopt this one? 1�1r. Carlson: hTo, I don 't want to adopt this one, but we have to have some thing to protect adjoinin property oT-,Tners. -5- Mr. Arndt: How about this - require a special use permit for all fences, period. Mr. Carlson: Then we would have to set design standards. I 'm not too concerned about spite fences. Mr. Condon: Then everybody and his brother who wants to put up a simple fence has to corae to the -Planning Corunission and the City Council and everyone else.' Mr. Carlson: Not a special use pormit - just a building permit. Mr. Arndt : From the tenure of the discussion, I get the impression that you think we do need a fence ordinance. Mr. Condon: I dontt. Mr. Carlson: I do. Mr. Arndt: I am of the ooinion that you might want to introduce a; few things into the ordinance, but not a full scale ordinance. How many restrictions do we want to irrpose on property owner's? Mr. Hohlt: I can see that a person living in a pretty nice neighborhood and somebody puts up a shabby fence. . . . Mr. Arndt: You can't control it. Mr. Hohlt : It should be controlled, Mr. Carlson: I will make a motion that we table the fence ordinance for further contemplation and study. Mr. Arndt: Is there a certain amount of time you want to table it fcr ? Mr. Carlson: Thirty days. Mr. Condon: How about having the City Attorney explain the background to us? Mr. Carlson: I would like that too. r1r. Condon: I will second, the motion. (all in favor) Mr. Arndt: The next item is the petition of David Magnuson aril of Jerry Mechelke. •Tould you gentlemen come forward and indicate to - the Planning Commission what you desire. Mr. David Magnuson 104 North Main Street I would like to present this petition signed by all of the freeholders requesting that v,,e have our variances granted. We have a sketch here - it ' s not drawn exactly to scale, but tiaere ' s an 181 roadway that ' s called St. Croix Avenue. 1'Iy request for a variance, of course,would hinge on whether or not you rpt to vacate Forward Street - if the street is vacated, it won't matter. Mr. Hohlt : This road you are talking about is going over somebody else 's property - who oijns that property? Mr. Mechelke : I own the outer edge. rot —6— Mr. o— Mr. Marrnuson: Lot 1 is in the name of State of Minnesota - the south two-thirds of lot 2 is also. We mould like to give easements to the City so they can straighten out that road. Mr. Hohlt : Say that that lot- is sold at public auction - you would be going over their lard with this road. .Jho owns Lot 12? Nir. Mechelke : My stepfather, Stan Peplinski. Mr. Magnuson: I am sure the city has adverse possession of that road. Mr. Arndt: Have they ever maintained this road? Mr. Shelton: We grade it and plow it. Mr. Hohlt: Tide still don't know who owns St. Croix Avenue, Mme. S11-elton: I,r. Gannon says he owns it. Mr. Hoh]t : 'Then our city pla t is tirr.ong. Mr. Shelton: It could have been vacated, but never recorded. f. Mr. Magnuson: On old surveys it says it ' s been vacated. Mir. Shelton: But there is nothing in the deed books which says it' s vacated. Mr. Hohlt : I wish we knew if that was a dedicated street up there. Mr. Magnuson: How will that bear on what happens here? Mr. Condon: It will bear on what happens to this area; it' s nota part of the City right now, but they will either ask to came into the City or they will ask for sewer and water. Mr. Carlson: Your house exists there right now? It 's completed? Mir. Magnuson: It 's not completed, but is roughed in. ,le couldn't get a surveyor - there was a three month wait. We wanted to have our homes up before the snow. .-de spoke to the Building Inspector and tried to figure out where the street was. A week after I got the building permit the survey was com-,feted and much to our surprise the road was much closer than we thought. We have filed a petition for the vacation of Forward Street. Mr. Arndt : Let the record show that the Planning Commission has not received a copy of the petition to vacate that street. Mr. Carlson: You now have a house built on the ncr th portion of Fcrward Street - how do you get onto your property?' Mr. Magnuson: From St. Croix Avenue. Mr. Condon: .,that ' s north of what is now beim used as a roadway? Mr. Magnuson: A big field owned by Bill Gannon. Mr. Hohlt : If that ' s delincuent property it could be sold over the counter right now, and then we would have problems. Mr. Carlson: Do you own all of block six? Mr. Magnuson: leo. Mr. Carlso n: Are you continuing to build or has work come to a stand- still? I Mr. Mechelke : All I have is a hole in the ground; my builder did not get a permit. He called the digger and he came up before I even had -7- elevations checked off; I never contacted hiss; it was done through Atlas Properties. Mr. Arndt: I recommend that a letter be sent to the contractor advising them that they have again violated the m dinance and if the City Council advises, prosecution under the ordinance will be insti- gated. Mr. Carlson: It was probably a breakdown in communications between the contractor and the subcontractor. Mr. Condon: I will make that motion. Mr. Hohlt : Don' t you think it would be better to warn them? Mr. tlechelke : I don't think it was done on purpose,.. Pir. Magnuson: Another thing about ,this - we both own substantial amounts of property there and if we had known we coul have put our houses in other spots. Mr. Carlson: You're not in too bad shape - you can dig that hole over again. Mr. Mechelke : Not really, sir; I can't build over fill. Mr. Carlson: Was there a second to that motion? Mr. Arndt : No. Mr. Shelton: He should have had a building permit, but this is the first time I know of Gib doing this. .maybe a letter should be- written to all contractors giving them a warning. (Mr. Arndt requested that the secretary read the motion) Mr. Hohlt : I will second the motion. (all in favor) . ) Mr. Carlson: How far back from the 18 ' gravel road are you? Mr. Mechelke : Forty feet. Mr. Magnuson: About ninety feet, I think, Mr. Condon: We should plan it now so that we don't have to end up buying that property - go from the present roadway ncrthwest to the edge just so we have the access. Mr. Carlson: Is there a need for expediency? Mr. I.Iagnuson: For Jerry - the longer he waits, the closer to winter it will be. Ivir. Carlson: Wouldn't you 7,ather have this thing straightened out properl7'T rather than have a meandering situation there? With Stillwater Avenue open, St. Croix Avenue oxen and Forward Street vacated? Mr. Arndt: If you vacate Forward Street, what are you going to do with this remaining property -which is obviously capable of being sold? ' here is nothing to prevent you from selling those lots (6 and 7) . Mr. I•ia nuson: ?lhy would the vacation of Forward Street bear on that? If it boils down to your not wanting to do this, I would give you a sixty foot road along these lots (1 and 8) . Mr. Shelton: The only place—•;h--re they have the two homes now is the only place desi: build on right now, but if you look to the -8- future and Stillwater Township came into the City, they would be liable to be assessed for sewer and they already have sewer and they understand this. At least they woulun't have to have cesspools. Air. Alechelke : Right. Air. Hohlt : I would like to know .,.That should be done. When that road gets put in.. . . Mr. Shelton: Yes, 0t,Tens street is going to go straight ahead. Mr. Condon: What can we do tonight? Mr. Carlson: I don 't think we can do anything. Mr. Condon: It seeras to me it all depends on whether or not they vacate Forward Street. �^Te don 't have that petition before us. Mr. 1,11agnuson: 'Jlhat you would be doing is giving Jerry a chance to get in his home before Christmas - before the snow gets .-too deep. 111r. I-iechelke: If I move to the east I have to buy more land from my stepfather and would have to have addi-il'onal cement work - about X300.00 out of my pocket. Mr. Shelton: St. Croix Avenue is owned by Gannon - how are you going L. straighten it out? Mr. Condon: I think you would be better offto make a curve in it. Mr. Hohlt : dho is going, to pay for it? °Mr. Condon: Assess it to lair. Gannon - he owns the property. Mr. Hohlt : He is the adjoining property owner . . Mir. Condon: As • far as 'ice. Mechelke is concerned - thereis an existing house that ' s less than fifteen feet from the street - who owns that? Mr. Mechelke : I own part of it and 1,1r. 1•iagnuson owns .part of it. Air. Magnuson: It 's a delapidated house and we are in the process of tearing it down now. Mr. IIohlt : Does that establish a setback? Mr. Condon: I guess it does. Mr. Shelton: I think the house being there was misleading to both Jerry and Dave - everything was in the middle of the street. I can see where it would be misleading. Mr. Hohlt: If you don't vacate the street, then what? Mr. Condon: The only thin; he is asking is that, instead cf being thirty Beet back, he :,rants to be 15 feet back. lair. Carlson: ?•le can assume that there is a petition for the vacation of Forward Street. Mr. Arndt: We have a petition for variances - what do you want to do with resrect to the variances? Mr. Carlson: It depends on Forward Street. Mr. Arndt: Assume it 's a dedicated street--for purposes of this hearing, at least, we are talking about variances. Do you wish to wait until you get the petition for vacation? Do you feel you need -further infor- mation. -9- Mr. Condon: I move that we table the discussion of these two items until we get the petition for the vacation of Forward Street, I4Zr. Hohlt: I will second it. Mr. Magnuson: ,:rill it be tabled until the receipt of the petition or until the City Council has decided to vacate or not? N.r. Melstrom: The petition has to cora to the Planning Commission, then has to go to the City Council and they have to have a hearing that tabes time . Mr. Mechelke : I have given my future renters a date as to when I am moving out -it causes me more of a -oroblem than Dave. If it was just a matter of moving the hole I wouldn't mind, but changing the location of the garage - I couldn 't do it because it couldn't be built on filled land. Mr. Hohlt : Will the engineer be over here soon? Mr. Shelton: If you want to recommend to him to make a study of it, that ' s what you should do. r. Mir. Arndt: Any further discussion on the motion? Mr. Magnuson: Mr. Ylechelke will be penalized because of one day's chance. I have a building permit and an oral opinion from Harold Kimmel to go ahead with my building, but because of one day he may have to wait until next spring. And I am only four feet away from that street and he is going to be fifteen feet away. Mr. Arndt : Gentlemen, we have a motion to table the proposal until we have received the petition for vacating the street; any further discussion? (all in favor of motion to table) . Mr. Arndt then dictated a menorandum to the City Council requeating that the City Ehgineer be asked to inspect the areas in question and report to the Planning Commission) . Mr. Condon: Will you be going to the City Council tomorrow night? Mr. lTagnuson: I think we will go and try to present these petitions withour your recommendation - it ' s the only thing we can do under the expedient circumstances. Thank you. - 11r. Arndt : Gentlemen, it 's ten o 'clock and I think we should adjourn, but prior to doing so, I want to , dictate some recommendations. . . Mr. Shelton: Before you start, we have no charge at present for rezoning. Is this suT;-oosed to be teat way? We seem to have a flat fee for everything but nothing for rezoning. Mr. Arndt : Do you want to recommend to the Council that it be amended to permit a charge of so much for petitions for rezoning. Yr. Condon: A variance is for a particular person, but rezoning is usually for the health, safety and public welfare of the community; who are you going to charge? Mir. Arndt: Charge the petitioners. Mr. Carlson: I think it s"nould be put at a high level - something like $50.00. Mr. Melstrom: I don' t think a rezoning request should come in just at the whim of a few people. -10- Mr. Hohlt : I think if it 's a big area it should bepaid by the city. Mr. Carlson: I move that the minimum filing fee for rezoning be set at $50.00. T°ir. Hohlt : Second. Mr. Carlson: This is just to keep costs incurred by the city down - there are a lot of publications, etc. I selected the figure of $50.00 because it takes a considerable amount of man hours, and the' cost should be placed upon the petitioners or the individual requesting rezoning. Roll call on the motion was as follows : Mr. Carlson: Aye Mr. Condon: No Mr. Hohlt: Aye iir. Melstrom: Aye Mr. Shelton: Aye Mir. Arndt : Abstain Mr. Arndt: ' I assume that a resolution is in order on this. Mr. Carlson: I qualified why I recommended the fee of $50.00. (Mr. Arndt then dictated a resolution for transmittal to the City Council regarding the recommended rezoning fee). (Ts. Arndt also dictated a resolution recommending that the City Council not enter into the uniform street sign system) . At this time a brief discussion was held with regard to administrative rules, etc. Mr. Carlson: We are obliged to inform contractors (of problems existing because of failing to obtain building permits immediately, etc. ) . Mr. Arndt: Would you undertake to write a formal statement for tI-B newspaper indicating that there have been a_ lot of problems.. Mr. Carlson: I can try. Mr. Melstrom: I know Jack (Shelton) has been trying to run these fellows dorm. Mr. Hohlt: We shouldn't have to run these problems down. Mr. Carlson: People are '-ignorant of what they have to have (to proceed with building, etc. ) A.0 JO's RNI'1IN T On motion of Mr. Carlson, seconded by Mr. Hohlt, the meeting adjourned at 10 :15 P. M. (next meeting tentatively scheduled for November 2, 1970) .