HomeMy WebLinkAbout1970-10-05 CPC MIN Special i
i1INUT�S OF THE STILLi-dAT:�R PLANNING AND ZONING CO a—TISSION
SPECIAL HE STING
October 5, 1970
7:30 P. M.
Present: Duane Arndt, Chairman
Gene Bremer
Donald Carlson
John Condon
Harold Hohlt
Fred Kalinoff
Jack Shelton
Sidney Wihren
The meeting was called to order_ by Chairman Arndt.
Mr. Carlson moved that the minutes of the previous meeting be approved;
Mr. Hohlt seconded the motion. (all in favor) .
` • °r a t: "�Aie first item on t-he agenda is a petition from Leslie
Lind, 270 north ii in Street, for rezoning. It is presently zoned
r
Light Industrial. .air. Shelton, T,ios.-ild you explain w1nere this property
is located in the city on the basis of the zoning -nap.
Mr. Shelton: Itis located on the, corner of north Zain and i,iulberry
Streets - itis in the same building that was occupied by John Fazendin;
he only keeps the radio part now. The building was originally built
for a shoe factory.
Mr. Arndt: ?,that '_rind of material was this building constructed from?
Mr. Shelton: Brick veneer.
Pair. Arndt: Have you inspected the building?
1�x. Shelton: Yes .
Mr. Arndt: Is it suitable for what PfIr. Lind intends to use it for?
a Mr. Shelton: Very suitable.
Mr. Arndt: Is the electrical service adequate for shoe manufact-,aring?
lir. Shelton: I dor 't know if he has changed it over, but I 'm positive
it would be, though .
Mr. 1=_--ndt: IL that is necessary, there may be some tearing up of streets
to put in feed lines by NSP.
Mr. Shelton: It should be sufficient.
Mr. Carlson: Is there a discrepency in the zoning map? I notice th_,t
the area marked IA is defned Light Industrial - Stillwater i-lanufacturing
occupias IA - are they classified as Liget Industrial?
Condon: I still think this is covered under Light i dus-Tial gaere
it says s-oecif ied uses
i°r. I don't think it does - there is no r,.anufacturing that i
can see under Light Industrial.
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ATr. Condon: Yes but under
special use
it 's a permitted special
al
use.
Mr. Hohlt : If your interpretatir;n is right, we can do it either way -
: by a variance or by rezoning.
iIr. Condon: It makes no difference to me because I tiron't vote for
Heavy Industrial. He is going to manufacture shoes this year - once
it 's Heavy Industrial he may be rendering fat next year.
Nr. Arnd�LL : In this case I would say it would be desirable to have a ,
opinion from the City Attorney as to whether Secti:-n 16 can be used
. iD facilitate this type of activity.
Xr. Condon: What if we do something tonight providing the City Attorney
approves of it?
Mr. Arndt : I believe John' s hesitation with res?-)ect to rezoning is
very valid; if you are talking about attempting to revitalize the
existing downtown area, commercial and heavy industrial areas are not
compatible.
Do you feel you have had a sufficient amount of discussion at this
point to make a recommendation?
Mr. Hohlt : I recommend that a special use permit be granted on the
above described property with the approval of the City Attorney.
Mr. Arndt : Do you wish this to be a blanket special use permit or
annual?
Ifir. Hohlt : I would recommend blanket.
111r. Arndt : How about a five year permit? All I an saying is that
circumstances could change and that you might want it out.
Mr. Hohlt : I &a putting myself in the other man's position.
NIr. Kalinoff: _�,,lhy not nut in that it be there as long as he keeps
his shoe business in there - as long as it 's shoe manufacturing.
Mr. Arndt: Do you mean that it should not be assignable.
Mr. Kalinoff: It should be assignable as a. shoe manufacturing plant
he should be able to dispose of it as the same business without
being penalized for it.
Mr. Arndt : Any further questions or discussion? Ex. Hohlt has moved
that a special use permit be o-_-ranted under Section 15 sub.2a, subject
to an opinion from the City Attorney.
Xr. Wihren: I will second the motion. (all in favor)
Xr. Arndt: he next itorl is the revision of the zonirl`; ordi:�u�:ce.
I asked all of you to review the materials forwarded to you - other
ordina ces, etc . I will indicate at this time some of the considera-
tions we discussed.
On Section 12, sub. lc, the question was raised as to what was meant
by customary home occupations.
Section 20, sub. 2a-4, it was recommended that this be revised so the
minimum sr._uare footage permitted on a iot in a two family district, on
.•fnich a two far:ily dwelling is to be constructed, should be raised to
10, 000 square feet.
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Mr. Condon: I would think that in a two family district where a person
wants to put up a one family home, he might be allowed to put it on a
7,500 foot lot.
Mr. Arndt : 1'dell, let me finish these first.
Section 20, sub. B2 - the discussion was to require the same side yard
in a two family district as in a one family district.
Mr. Hohlt: We the still got our fifteen feet.
Mr. Arndt : Itts not enough.
Mr. Carlson: The top of page 32 is different from this requirement.
Delete Section 2a-2 and put in a new one that the side yard in a two
family district shall be the same as the side yard required in a one
family district.
Mr. Arndt : It was also recommended that the minimum width for a lot
be increased to eig'ity feet in a two family district.
Dir. Condon: Is that possible?
Mr. Arndt : Not in the old city - we are talking about new developments.
It ...,as also recommended that Section 18, lb be revised to require a
minimum of two parking units per dwelling unit with appropriate street
access.
Another recommendation was that a provision be added to the subdivision
ordinance that on lots where there is reversed frontage, the lot size
should be increased to take care of possibilities of both front and
side yard, Corner lots will be increased so there will be an adequate
amount of back yard - double setback lines.
Mr. Condon: I don 't see that it ' s necessary.
Mr. Hohlt : A man who has regular frontage can be within fifteen feet,
right?
Mr. Carlson: Thirty feet.
Mr. Condon: That 's not what it says.
Mir. Carlson: Thatts That we want it to say.
Mr. Arndt: They need that much setback both ways for visibility
purposes.
Mr. Bremer : On corner lots, as long as we have a side yard regulation
I don't see how they can get around it without coming in for a variance.
Mr. Arndt : if you increase the lot size you T-.ouldn't have these
problems so often.
Have all of ,.ou had a chance to review the Fridley ordinance? Let 's
start T:ith pave 20, R2 and R2a. In their classification, they set up
principal uses and accessory uses. In particular I call your attention
to accessory use 2b. 1ould you deem it advisable to revise our
ordinance to include that? (Privately oTrned recreation,_l facilities,
such as swimming pools, tennis courts, w'r_ich are for the enjoyment and
convenience of the residents of the principal use and their guests. )
1�1r. Hohlt: Wiat do we have in our ordinance about pools?
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Mr. Shelton: Not a thing on pools or fences.
141r. Arnd'L-,,: The only t'.".inU�,r,- 1 kcno-,,%T of is found in Section 18 it speaks
of -rublic pools. Tao a ridley ordinance -provides for the same thing in
single f,°-Mily distric-s , Do 70U Wish
a, perr U LO - U 1.1 to include this in our ordinance
as
aitteA use or by
special use permit?
I
Mr. Hohlt: I think we should have some restrictions - a special
permit for pools, and they should require fencing too.
1,1r. Arndt : Amend the ordinance so that no swimming pool or recreational
type structure should be constructed in the City of:D Stillwater without
the appropriate building permit.
Mr. Hohlt: We should have some control to see that they keep a fence
up*
Mr. Kalinoff : Does the Fridley ordinance say anything about the
protection of pools?
Mr. Arndt: Not that I know of,
M?. Kalinoff: I would say that we should word it like the Fridley
ordinance and let the city safety ordinances take over from there.
Mr.- Wihren: I move we allow swimming- pools under special use permits.
CD
I-Ir.. Kalinoff: For every swimming pool in town there would be another
hearing.
Mr. Shelton: I think it should be accessory use.
Mr. Arndt: you would like to include that both Sections
11 and 12 and Section 13 be amended to permit swimmingTpools which
are privately o-vinad, or other -.-)riva-U----'Ly owned recrea- onal facilities,
be permitted as an accessory use in these zoning districts and be
ax,,onded in appropriate places to require a building permit prior to
construction of any recreational facility. W
e may have some problems
in regard to i%lhat rinds of recreational
- indoors, outdoors etc.Y but we Ill
let t City ,%tt iney worry about that.
Now, back to the problem we had with the nursing homes. . .
Mr. Hohlt : -VTEiat is the matter with it?
.":r. Arndt I -didn't say *"here iias ,anythin,- wrong with it, it 's just
very broad - ao you -,-iant 11t, to be that broad? (Section 11, 2a) .
Mere is a thing in the Fridley' ordinance on Page 21, it 's
much 17101-e specific.
Mir. Condon: Charitable institutions is pretty broad.
Mr. Arndt: From the opinion we 've had from the City Attorney, special
use permits are pretty narrow - if it 's listed you can issue it.
1dr. Hohlt : There are so many things that could come up that we aren't
thiniXing of now, maybe we should keep it the way we have it.
CD
1-1r. Kalinoff: I don't think we should - I think ours is too broad.
-e Va nad t',-Lase
--I- .1-ings 00me u'� twice - on Owens Street and
tare old no�crla. (requests for 611aritable institutions, etc. )
If e could see in tlle future and something came up thatuwe wanted,.
thor- e is no wget it into the city accordunLrpto the Fridley
ordinance.
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Mr. Condon: Spot zone.
Mr. Hohlt : Have to make another zone.
In. Kalinoff : Everything is getting larger and larger.
Mr. Arndt : :everything depen6s on your conception of where Stillwater
is going to be in the next five or ten years - and what you want
Stillwater to be.
Mr. Kalinoff : I will move that we go to more restricted provis ,ona
with rospoet to hospitals, clinics, nurain; homes, etc. bastion 110
2a. )
Mx. Wihren: Second.
The vote was as follows : In favor : Mr. Carlson
Mr. Shelton
Mr. Wihren
Mr. Kalinoff
Opposed: hr. Bremer
Mr. Condon
Pix°. Hohlt
Mr. Arndt
Mr. Condon: Before you get too far away from my suggestion about square
footage - a two family home in a two family district should require
10,000 square feet, but a one family home in a t:ro family district should
be only 7,500. !,''V not encourage single family in two family districts?
If a house comos dov�m a man is almost forced to build a duplex again.
Mr. Arndt: John is right - in a two family district if an old barn is
torn down and someone wishes to build a now house and he has 7,500 feet -
if we revise the ordinance to require 10, 000 the building inspector
would not be able to issue a building permit for a single far-lily dwelling;
He would have to request a special use permit.
hr. Kal inoff : We 're speaking about the old platted district.
Mr. Condon: In the new platted districts you are actually getting
some lessening of density.
NO. Hohlt: Then we 'll have to start giving variances for back yard
garages, etc.
Mr. Condon: I was thinking primarily of the older part of the City
which is nog: zoned for two family - you are going to cut them out or
they are - oing to come for a variance of some sort, -.aren't they?
Arndt:
,rndtri ��'1e Fridley "& '7^'
k - o=! ^� �na��r�ce ck�n r_ approach exactly
ply opposite
of our buildin j ordinance;nanceP i t requires a minimum amount a square foot-
age on a single fa"r1i y jot in a s ,n7le family district and requires
moro 2q uaro footage on a lot in a two family district. You have
ex amount of square footage required in a single family district and
ex-plus amount of square footage where you have two family districts.
1&. KA- inoff : What is the reason for that?
Hr. Arndt : If you permit two dwelling units to go in on less than
.10, 000 square feet it would be self defeating. We agreed to raise
the minimum footage in two family districts to conform with one family
districts.
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Mr. Hohlt: If you want to have low density, 10, 000 feet for a family
to live on is not too much.
P'Ir. Arndt: If you are going to have two dwelling units our present
ordinance requires 7,500 feet
Mr. Hohlt : I can't see that.
Mr. Shelton: If you bring in a plat now it 's all one family.
Mr. Arndt: If it ' s platted it comes in under the classification it 's
platted at.
Do you wish to add anything to the provisions of two family districts
as to how much of a lot area a building can cover?
Mr. Carlson: ?:ie should talk about how many buildings - one garage or
two garages.
I"ir. Arndt : I call your attention to Section 21 (page 31) . In respect
to one family districts - secticn 1 of Section 20 - there is a
reauirern�ent that all buildings or structures shall not cover more than
30�o of the area of the lot.
Mr. Carlson: I realize that, but how 'many buildings are we going to
allow on a lot? 'T�-ro .garages, or one accessory building. I think that
should be taken into consideration.
Mr. Arndt : We could recommend that we add an additional paragraph
that accessory use be permitted, but that the provision read that
only one accessory building per lot be allowed.
Mr. Condon: In a two family district they can use 40 j of the land.
Mr. Carlson: I i-.ould like to see some consideration as far as
accessory buildings and some control on special use permits for
additional accessory buildings.
Mr. Arndt : Is it the concensus that the ordinance be amended to
limit accessory buildings to one?
I1r. Hohlt : If you have an attached garage and want an accessory
building, what then?
Mir. Carlson: We should have control under special use permits.
Mr. Arndt : It could be amended so that a ,::� :iva te garage, which is
considered an accessory unit, if detaclied, be per-L i ti ad on a building
lot. Any structure in excess of one •z�rivata garage would require
issuance of a special use permit. If' attached, any accessory building
must require a special use permit
Mr. Carlson: I will make that motion.
Mr. Hohlt : Second.
(I11r. Condon was opposed to the motion; all others in favor)
Mr. Arndt: Do you wish to revise the land area which structures can
occupy?
Pr. Hohlt : Let it stand.
j'1r. Arndt : You want to retain the present area requirements at
30% and 4059
Yr. talinoff: 10, 000 feet in both districts?
1"l-r• Arndt : Correct
a
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Mr. Condon: 7,500 feet for a single family unit in a two family
district, is that dead? If so, you are saying you want 102000 square
feet.
Mr. Arndt: We would revise the non conforming use section of the
present ordinance.
Xr. Condon: lvle 're talking about the city as it is now..
Mr. Hohlt: If there was a duplex on a 7,500 foot lot and it burned
do,.-m, you could build a single family house on that.
Mr. Arndt : If we change the ordinance to require 10, 000 feet in a
two family district - in the old areas that are platted a person who
would want to build a one family or two family dwelling could not do
so without a request for a variance.
Mr. Bremer : We 're talking- about someone with a 7, 5100 foot lot.
Mr. Kalinoff: Let' s put it under two headings - old area and new area.
Mr. Arndt : You could adopt a provision that an increase of land
area of 10, 000 feet shall not apply to any land platted before so and
so date, it would only be applicable to new plats.
Mr. Condon: I was thinking that if a duplex is torn dorm we should
allow them to build a single family house.
Mr. Arndt : Is there a motion as to Ir. Condon's position?
Mr. Condon: I will make the motion.
Mr. Carlson: Second.
I=Tr. Arndt : Your motion is that t a ,conjnn� ordinance should be
revised to require a minimum of 10, 000 square feet, except that lots
platted and: presently coned two family district should permit the
construction of a single family d e„lli.ng in, i:; at is now a two family
district on a lot of 7,500 square ,feet. You do intend to specifically
lil"lit this exception to a single family dwelling.
(The vote was as follows : All in favor) .
Plr. Arndt : The setback requirements should be continued at the present
limit of 30 feet.
Mr. Hohlt A minimum of 30 feet, but suppose we accept a plat - say
a guy sets back- 50 or 60 feet - it makesit rough on the others. I
think we L ould have a maximum setback.
Hr. Kalinoff : We should -make it a minimum of- 30 feet, a maximum of
40 feet.
Mr. Cordon: ',,'hat do we care how far back he sits?
Mr. Arndt : You are talking about something' that has basic inconsistency.
Mr. Hohlt : The existing setback can be established by he and I; I am
talking about extremes. I would like to have it so you can't force
someone to go back.
1,1r. Arndt: Jere talking about something that ' s difficult to resolve
through a general ordinance. A person who doesn 't
requirements. brant a uniform
setback - pormit him to come in and apply for relief from the strict
Mr. Carlson: Is there any way we can control developers who come in?
-8-
I'Ir. Hohlt: You could require that on the plat.
Mr. Bremer : `There are lots of reasons for varying setbacks - trees
are one.
Mr. Hohlt: On accepting plats - the setback restrictions should be
established before the plat is established.
1'1r. Arndt: Are you recommending that we leave the present ordinance
as it is and let the subdivision ordinance be amended?
Xr, Condgn= DQQs -it havo tQ bo tho same?
Mr. Hohlt: It doesn't have to be the same, but it has to be established.
Mr. Bremer: !,That makes 30 feet a magic number? I can see two - the
visibility and perhaps noise control.
Mr. Hohlt : As this city was planned - we have a lot of 150 foot lots.
Mr. Bremer: Some people want big back yards.
Mr. Arndt: Do you wish to have the subdivision ordinance amended so that
a setback is established and the present setback lines in our ordinance
be maintained?
I.-Ir. Hohlt : So move.
Mr. Carlson: Second.
Mr. Shelton : The subdivision ordinance should be amended to require
75 feet of frontage at the setback line.
Mr. Arndt: In addition to your motion' in terms of the subdivision
ordinance being wended to show setback lines, the subdivision
ordinance shall be amended to -require a ni'nimum of 75 feet of _frontage
at the setback line on, any newly platted property.
Tfir. Condon: On cul-de-sacs you don't need 75 feet of frontage.
Mr. Arndt: The reason for using cul-de-sacs is cutting down on utility
costs.
hr. Condon: The ordinance says no house should be constructed on a lot
less than 75 feet wide.
I,ir. Carlson: I would say we should get a recommendation from Jack -
what do you think is practical in designing ccul-de-sacs?
Mr. Hohlt: All cul-de-sacs should be 50 foot radius. You would have to
make the radius larger if they make .it 80 feet at the setback line.
Shelton: There is a lot of advantages.
Mr. Arndt : °+' e 're talking about whether you want minimum width of the
lot to be from the setback line or if you want it to be dimension.
Mr. Carlson: Get a desi-n standard from Jack
Mr. Arndt: le ' ll reconsider this matter at the next Faceting where we
discuss she ordinance and will try to get a recommendation.
Mr. Carlson: I move we adjourn.
U U. �' � 1P.� to��i"� «'�� �-1� 11 di s us a 0"od'J.nac" 1'C uirm+ Get`
s 'Uerz"Is
r i;eu d1 'ate'" .7ht f 100!- area, living space, eta.� and^� " n r:,t t •t,O One CMd two family d ellinz ; , also apartment
ccs99:yic rwr:yaz kinds, of s,cre°e^^n^n-�n * are we going to re-quire for p rk ung
1 aWn..Ai.1.l.Y.Vice's, .1Ao.G..+.e s t!nu,k dards,, etc.y„�',.
-9-
Mr. Condon: I don't think we have the instruments to measure.
Mr.Arndt: But we can build in certain construction standards. There
is one additional tAing we may wish to consider - if we are going
to eliminate mini ti family districts we have to come up with a set of
criteria which will be put into the ordinance with respect to special
use permits - the kinds of criteria we want to require the petitioner
to show us. The Fridley ordinance talks about sodding, landscaping,
preserva ,ion of property, etc.
Thu City Attorney has submitted to us an amendment to Ord nano NO, 383
regardinS fences.
After briefly discussing the fence ordinance, the Commission members
felt there were several portions of it which tley-wish to review
further, therefore, the matter was carried ovor to a future meeting.
ADJOURNHANT
It. Shaltaiseconded Mr. Carlson's previous motion to adjourn. Meeting
adjourned at 9:50 P. M.