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Home My WebLink About1970-12-21 CPC MIN 11,1IN I S 013 PLi-IN ING A�NrD ZONING COic IS5Iu1 Regular Meeting December 21, 1970 7 :30 P. 1°'- Present : Duane -,rndt, Chairman Sid Wihren Harold Hohlt Gene Bremer John Condon The meeting was called to order by Chairman Arndt. .K--n. Condon: I will have to leave early tonight, so on this fencing (pro-oosed a=endment to zoning ordinance ) - a lot of what is being asked by the Council is Council business - there 's not too much plannin , land use, etc . I think we should go for that business where vTo measure a '_nce from t'r e curb line - a redefinition of what we already have . Ilso, some hei7ht restriction - I would like to m,�Lke it six feet, I think a fence should be allowed as close to the property line as it can Zet - as far as upkeep, if you can reach over it to paint it, trhat should be it. 1-Ir. = ohlt : Would you classify hedges the same as a fence? -'r. Condon: I would not. Xr. Arnct: 1iave all of you received copies of the minutes of the last meetin ? Any additions or corrections? i,rr. Condon: I move the minutes of the last meeting be approved. '-'Ir. dihren: Second. (all in favor) . 'lir. ?rr_d.t : I do not see anyone here regarding the petition of _lde for rezoning of certain property, so we will table the matter until the next meeting. `the next iters of discussion is the proposed amendment to the snoTtiTMlobi le ordinance referred to us by the City Council. there is a public hearing toraorro,r night on the matter. Hr. riohlt: There is very little difference between this and Ordinance 437. 1-r. :?rndt: The Statutes have been chan,i;ed since the original ordinance W,,S drafted; the id-.a iS to make the local ordinance contorn. with state statutes . IT-ien the snoT,rraobile first became prominent there T-ras - lot of discussion about what is a snow-mobile . A motor vehicle or what? If i t --Te-re :� Motor vehicle it would be subject to the same orovis__ons as an antcraobiie . ? snoT,.raobile is not considered a motor vehicl^ - you do not have to have a driver ' s license to operate one - you don',t need much of anything. The pules are made through the Commissioner of Conservation rather than the liotor Vehicle Department, as a consec.uence a lot of r - rules and regulations you would normally think should apply to s -_eT.- mobiles don't apply. The specific issues we should talk about are -2- should they be permitted to operate on city streets at all and what hours? Since they are not motor vehicles you can prohibit them. hhen our ordinance was first drafted people thought they would be classified as motor vehicles . Many co-_T,,i-:Unities have absolutely banned their use within city limits; I think this is the one issue the Council could like us to discuss and if you think they should be permitted in City, what kind of restrictions? Mr. Hohlt : 7hy not wait until the legislature is in session and maybe they will classify them as motor vehicles? 10. Arndt : I don't think there will be a lot of snowmobile legislation in this session. Mr. Condon: If it 's not a motor vehicle, what right do they have on the streets? Kr. Arndt : Same as bicycles. The State requires a license for snow- mobiles through the State Commissioner of Conservation - they are subject to certain regulations, beyond that, I don't kno7. ! . Hohlt : They have it amended except for the hours. Hr. �Ilrndt : Yes, that ' s left open. Mr. Condon: :gnat are the braking capacities of one of those things? 10. Arndt : Not great - they slide. Let ' s take the issues in order. ,vJhat is your feeling on the use of snowmobiles in the city itself? W. Wilren: I would like to see them have fun, but some people handle them in such a reckless manner. Mr. Arndt : This is the problem - the fact that young kids can operate them causes problems. l[r. Hohlt : if there are too many restrictions you are going to make violators out of a lot of people. Mr. Arndt : Are you inclined to let peo7le use them in the city or do you want them prohibited in the city entirely? I&. Condon: I think they are a hazArd and a nuisance myself - I don't have one. Mr. Hohlt: A lot of people enjoy them. Hr. Arndt : I think the easiest type of ordinance to enforce is an absolute ban - you don' t have to ask anybody if they have permission or don' t have permission. 10. Hohlt : Don't you think that 's why a lot of people like to live in Stillwater - because they can have snowmobiles and things like that? Mr. Wihren : I wouldn ' t ban them entirely on streets. l[r. Arndt: One problem is we have quite a number of blind intersections with an auto at a high rate of speed and snowmobile that can' t stop fast, there is a lot of potential accidents - a snowmobile wouldnit stand a chance. Mr. Nihnen: Anyone with any sense 'at all isn' t going to cross an intersection without making sure it' s clear. Mr. Bremer : Have any of you ever driven a snowmobile? The more you drive one, the more you become - you know - tempted to. . . Mr. Hohit : People going to XcKusick Lake have to go down the street to get there . -3- Mr. Condon: '.-,,hy can' t they use their trailers? i1r. Hohlt : A lot of people don't have trailers . Mr. Bremer : I don' t particularly like them after 11:00 o 'clock. N. !rndt : They are a safety hazard, is -it such that they should be banned, or do you feel we don't have enough experience to warrant a ban on them? Mr. 1-Iihren: That would be my thinking. Mr. Hohlt: That ' s that I say too. Mr. Condon: I have no strong feelings : either way, but not knowing enough about them, I would ban them® NO. Bremer: I don't think we could ban them all the way. Mp. Hohlt : We could have a snowmobile route so they could get to the lakes. Mr. Arndt: Do you want to put it in the form of a motion that the ordinance not be an absolute ban? hr. Hohlt : I move that we recommend no ordinance be adopted which bans the use of snowmobiles completely within the City of Stillwater with the possibility of making snowmobile routes to the lakes if the traffic hazards prove to be a problem in the future. 10. Wihren: Second. (all in favor) . 1,11r. Arndt : ,,,Treat do you think of prohibiting them from playgrounds and schoolgrounds, etc? The present ordinance doesn't ban them - it ' s unlawful except as authorized by proper authorities. it leaves- & to the authorities as to what to do. I think that 's the proper method for that - if they choose not to have them use it, that 's fine. 10. Hohlt : On that "written permission", I think a lot of people have violated that. (hr. Condon loft themeeting atthispoint) ;; . . . i . . . ,i4 . . . . . ; . :i . . . Mr. Arndt: As a practical matter, it ' s_ going to be tough to enforce written permission, but I don't know what the alternative would be. NO. Bremer: Do you have to have written permission to go hunting on Private property? lr® L'rndt : Normally you are talking about property not within a municipality where there are ordinances governing this sort of thing. I think the proposed ordinance as drafted is as good as it can get. It might be difficult to enforce, but from the standpoint of drafting, 1 don't know what else you could do with it. 1,1r. Hohit : -',j'aat about the hours of operation? DO. Arndt : I am inclined to think that 10 :00 ofolock is late enough; regardless of how they are operated they do make a fair amount of noise. Mr. Wihren: It snould be an exciting meeting tomorrow night. Tar® Hohlt : I don't think what we do is going to make a lot of difference; poople that are for them are really for them and people who don't like them are really against them. -4- El. Arndt: What kind of hours of operation? hb. Wihren: I think the Council should determine that. NO. Hohlt : What about the Police Department? 10. Wihren : They shouldn't run after 11:00 o1clock. Bromor; If we move it baA to 11 :00 of1ck we may have ean problem, but it that goUndsolike an appropriate hour. Mr.ir. Arndt: Well, our quQrum having been diminished, I will declare this meeting adjourned. (8 :25 P. M- ) (Next meeting - January 18, 1971)