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Home My WebLink About2012-09-24 PRC MIN CITY OF STILLWATER PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 24, 2012 Present: Chair Linda Amrein, Commissioners David Brandt, Scott Christensen, Rob McGarry, Sandy Snellman, Don Stiff, Solveg Peterson, and Councilmember Mike Polehna Absent: None Staff present: Public Works Superintendent Tim Moore Chair Amrein called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. Approval of Minutes: Motion by Commissioner Snellman, seconded by Commissioner Brandt, to approve the August 27, 2012 minutes. All in favor. OPEN FORUM There were no public comments. ACTION ITEMS Municipal Swimming Pool Councilmember Polehna introduced Jim Maland who designs ice arenas, pools and rec centers across the country. Mr. Maland explained that the three types of water facilities are: traditional pools (rectangular bodies of water), family aquatic centers, and water parks (for-profit businesses). Traditional pools have a limited appeal and usually recoup less than 40% of their operating costs. Aquatic centers have activities for youth, adults and families, and can recover anywhere from 70% of their costs to making 20% profit. Mr. Maland stated that the components of an aquatic center are: shallow water with a zero edge 0-3 feet deep; medium depth 3-5 feet; deep water 5-12 feet; peripheral amenities such as “lazy rivers”; building features, and support elements. He presented photos showing various features of aquatic centers throughout the Midwest. Mr. Maland informed the Commission that the first step is to do a feasibility study, which evaluates a site, size, design and cost. He also recommended doing a community survey to help determine the scope and direction of the project. The next step would be to secure funding through fundraising and perhaps a referendum. After that comes design development, schematic design, development of construction plans, bidding and then construction. The feasibility study can take anywhere from two months to a year. Design takes five to eight months, bidding takes about one month, and construction usually begins early in the spring for opening the following year. He told the Commission to keep in mind that staff will need time to be trained to operate the facility. In terms of who is involved in the process, Mr. Maland said that usually a task force is involved in the first few steps which involve gathering input. Design and construction are more technical and therefore involve city staff. The task force determines community needs in response to the budget; staff looks at maintenance, control of operating costs, and development of an operating plan. He stated that a goal for the first steps is to determine if it’s realistic to recover capital and operating costs. Most communities don’t fully recover capital costs, but try to recover operating Park and Recreation Board Minutes September 24, 2012 Page 2 of 3 costs. Some communities subsidize operating costs to make it more affordable for the general public to use the facility. Mr. Maland presented a variety of scenarios of expense versus revenue for aquatic facilities; also a chart by the National Park and Recreation Association comparing population percentages and what capacity (“bather load”) of pools would be supported. Bath house configuration would be determined by state code. Site acreage, amenities, topography, land configuration, green space requirements and parking all determine the size of the facility. There are many different themes to aquatic facilities. The most popular features are zero-depth, slides, drop slides, and a lazy river. Staffing an aquatic center is different than a rectangular pool. You need staff at the top and bottom of some of the elements, guards for lap pools, and staff for shallow water. He reviewed potential capital costs. Bather load, size of facility, amenities, and the quality of the facility all determine cost. He suggested aiming at 1,000-1,100 bather load capacity for Stillwater. A ballpark cost estimate for such a facility would be $7-12 million including design, construction, and amenities. He added that an outdoor facility makes more sense than an indoor facility for Minnesota, due to the cost of operating an indoor facility - there are air quality issues and other factors. He estimated that six to nine acres would be needed. Mr. Maland answered commissioners’ questions about various facilities around the metro area. $7-15 is the usual charge for users. Often a pass system is set up. He recommended doing a community survey to gauge support for the project. Mr. Moore pointed out that the city doesn’t have a five to six acre parcel available for a facility at this time. Commissioner Amrein said perhaps the group pursing this can look outside city limits for a site. She feels a site should be determined before doing a community survey. Councilmember Polehna said the facility should be a revenue generator. It also may be difficult to find staff. Mr. Moore concurred that it is a struggle to find lifeguards, and added that staffing needs would depend on the hours of operation. Councilmember Polehna commented that neighboring communities will need to buy into the project in order to make it feasible. Commissioner Christensen mentioned several open parcels in the city, but they are all too small. Public Works Superintendent Moore expressed concern about operating costs in light of future city infrastructure needs. Commissioner Stiff said he feels the facility should break even. Mr. Moore suggested bringing a recommendation to the Council stating that after Mr. Maland presentation, seeing what size of property is needed and capital outlay to build it, the Commission doesn’t feel it’s worth pursuing at this point. Motion by McGarry, seconded by Amrein, to advise the Council that because a six to nine acre site and $7-12 million capital outlay would be needed per the presentation by Jim Maland, the recommendation to the Council is not to pursue the project at this time. All in favor. Outdoor Winter Rinks Mr. Moore reviewed data on maintenance costs of the outdoor ice rinks. About 1,000 hours every winter is spent maintaining rinks, equating to about $45,000 in labor. Another $5-6,000 for miscellaneous materials is spent, not including water. If the City paid for water, it would cost another $5-6,000. In summary, the City spends about $55,000 a year on the rinks. The rinks being proposed for closing are the ones that appear to get the least amount of use. He has received preliminary approval from the school district to double the size of the rink at the old athletic field and is looking at bringing in a temporary shelter there. He feels that the City could have better ice if there were fewer rinks to maintain. Park and Recreation Board Minutes September 24, 2012 Page 3 of 3 Motion by Commissioner McGarry, seconded by Commissioner Snellman, to approve Public Works Superintendent Moore’s schedule for the outdoor rinks and to schedule a neighborhood meeting on the issue to gather input. All in favor. Chairman Amrein asked, if individual residents wanted to, would they be allowed to maintain the rinks themselves? Commissioner McGarry responded that, due to liability, he would discourage it. Mr. Moore added that because the rinks are flooded from hydrants, a resident doing it themselves would be difficult. Fall Colors Fine Art & Jazz Festival There was discussion on when event applications are due and how to enforce deadlines. Motion by McGarry, seconded by Stiff to approve the festival permit. All in favor. INFORMATIONAL ITEMS Mr. Moore stated he has not had a chance to work on the Pickle Ball request, but thinks next year it could be developed at Staples Field. COMMISSION ITEMS/TOPICS Chair Amrein said the hip hop and graffiti art activity at Pioneer Park was very successful and interesting. The meeting was adjourned at 8:50 p.m. on a motion by Amrein, second by Stiff. Respectfully submitted, Julie Kink Recording Secretary