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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-07-06 HPC MIN(Water. THE SIIITMPLACE OF MINNESOTA HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION WEDNESDAY, JULY 6, 2011 7:00 PM Present: Commissioners Lieberman, Johnson, Brach, Tomten and Councilmember Cook Staff Present: Planner Pogge, Assistant Public Works Superintendent Moore Absent: Commissioners Goodman, Krakowski, Zahren Chair Lieberman called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Approval of Minutes: Commissioner Brach, seconded by Commissioner Tomten, moved to approve the minutes of June 6, 2011. Motion passed unanimously. OPEN FORUM No one was present who wished to speak. Open forum was closed. PUBLIC HEARINGS Case No. DEM /2011 -34. A demolition request of a residence located at 911 Churchill Street West in the RB, Two Family Residential District. Lakeview Hospital, Curt Geissler, Applicant. The purchase of the property by the Hospital has fallen through and thus the demolition application was withdrawn. Chair Lieberman opened and closed the public hearing without further action. Case No. DR/2011 -35. Design review of new construction in the Neighborhood Conservation District located at 502 5th Street North in the RB, Two Family Residential District. Jennifer Cates Peterson, Cates Fine Homes, representing KC Kidder, applicant. HPC reviewed and approved the demolition permit for the exiting home on the property subject to approval of the new home plan. The applicant is requesting approval of an infill design review for a replacement single - family home. Infill homes in the NCD are required to follow the NCD design guidelines as specified in the staff report. This property, which is technically considered a corner lot, is unique due to the steep slope in the rear yard. The required setbacks and the steep slope constrain the overall buildable area for a City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 garage. Without some type of variance staff does not believe a garage is possible on this property. Options for a garage are first, it could be located behind the home and encroach into the required setback to the steep slope or second, it could be built as proposed within the required setback from an exterior side yard property line. Since Cherry Street adjacent to this site is a dead end at the ravine, Staff believes it is more beneficial to protect the steep slope of the ravine rather than the side setback from Cherry Street. Therefore, staff supports the garage location as proposed. A variance will be needed before the applicant can proceed with the plan as presented. Ms. Cates Peterson was present and stated that Cates Fine Homes has put together a detailed plan for the proposed new home. Per the staff report, the level of detail shown on the plans overall reflects appropriate choices in trim and detail and is appropriate for the neighborhood. Ms. Cates provided a list of materials chosen: • Windows with wood grids, primarily double -hung windows except in the bathroom • GAF 30 year architectural shingle • 6" exposure Hardi board lap siding • Option - corrugated or standing seam metal roof on porch, or asphalt shingle to match house • Wood / cedar decking & railing system • Colors to be historic in nature • Flush masonite garage door When asked about the three- quarter porch shown in the drawing, Ms. Cates replied that it was scaled back so that the roof line fits better with the garage and house. Commissioner Lieberman opened the floor to public comment. Kathy Gragert of 510 North 5th Street asked if there were any plans for a fence, expressing that she would like to see a privacy fence there if possible. Ms. Cates replied that a fence was not in the plans at this point, but could certainly be added. Lee A. Lehner of 222 West Cherry Street asked if the applicant was looking to sell or rent this home. Ms. Cates replied that she is representing the owner, but does not know if the owner ultimately plans to sell or rent. Gil Gragert of 510 North 5th Street wondered if not having a back door in the design was an oversight that could present a safety issue. He inquired if there was a City ordinance that covers this. Ms. Cates responded that there is a front door and an entrance through the garage. The plan doesn't include a back door at present, but the double hung window on the north side could be changed to a patio door. Commissioner Johnson stated that HPC is looking at architecture; a building official will look at egress issues before approval. 2 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 There being no further comment, Commissioner Lieberman closed the public portion of the meeting. Commissioner Brach asked about a site plan, and Ms. Cates responded that she has submitted a site plan for the variance that is needed. Mr. Pogge explained that one of the issues revolving around the garage is that City code specifies that it be set back 10 feet from a front or exterior side yard. Cherry Street is an exterior side yard. If the garage is set in the back it is too close to the ravine, and the preference is not to impact the ravine. Therefore, a variance for the garage is necessary. Ms. Cates variance request will go the Planning Commission in August. Commissioner Brach asked about adding a sidewalk for pedestrian access to the home. Ms. Cates said that a sidewalk from the front steps out to 5th Street will be added. Commissioner Johnson asked about the standing metal on the porch. Ms. Cates replied that it could easily be shingles or a cedar look instead if that was preferable. Commissioner Brach said he thought a wood look would be better. Staff recommends approval of the demolition request and Neighborhood Conservation District design review as conditioned. Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Tomten, moved to approve Case No. DR/2011 -35, with the conditions that modifications be submitted in advance, that siding be cement board lap siding similar to Hardie Plank with 6" reveal, windows be double -hung (manufacturer unspecified), final fixtures be down -lit, design to be approved in advance, and the applicant obtain a variance from the Planning Commission prior to the issuance of a building permit. In addition, roofing on the porch should match the shingles on the house, a back door be added, preferably a sliding door, as well as a sidewalk constructed from the front door to 5th Street. Fencing is recommended but is not a condition of approval. Motion passed unanimously. Landscaping has not been considered yet. DESIGN REVIEWS Case No. DR/2011 -32. Concept Design review for a new restroom buildings in south Lowell Park. City of Stillwater, applicant. At the June 6, 2011 HPC Meeting staff presented a plan for improvements to the Lowell Park Bathroom Facilities. The conceptual plan included expanding the bathrooms to 500 square feet and installing a roof for the bathroom portion of the building that imitates the cupola on the train depot that existed on the north end of town. Suggestions from the Commission at the June 6 meeting included incorporating more features from the Gazebo and the new bathroom proposed on the pedestrian plaza along with a lower sloped roof. Mr. Moore presented two new preliminary plans incorporating some features of the gazebo, a more modern look and a lower slope roof The new proposal raises the floor elevation to match the existing lift station, parking lot elevation and to protect the bathrooms during high 3 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 water. The higher roof will help eliminate the vandalism problem that has occurred in the past with people climbing on the roof. Mr. Moore related that in a conversation earlier today with Mr. McGuire, he was informed that they had modified and simplified the roof as requested, and that are looking at steel or tin for the roofing material. The bathroom configuration stays the same. Commissioner Lieberman expressed that he likes the new roof design. When asked if the height of the building met the city's height ordinance, Mr. Pogge replied that it does. Councilmember Cook asked about the two bathrooms (Lowell Park and the one farther north) being similar in design, and Mr. Pogge responded that the City Council previously directed that they be two distinct buildings. Two options were presented, the first one a simple bathroom with hip roof, and the second one being the same bathroom with added pergolas on the north side, tying it to the gazebo design. The Commission liked the pergola design that helped bring the overall height down. Commissioner Johnson suggested extending the lift station parapet color to the new restroom, thus bringing the upper windows down a little to provide more continuity. He also recommended using a slightly different color brick. Commissioner Tomten supported the idea of different color brick. He suggested that if pergolas are not included then adding double columns like the existing gazebo should be considered to "try to speak a common language between the two buildings." Case No. DR/2011 -08. Design review for signage on an existing_ pole located at 14130 60thStreet North, Advanced Dermatology Care, in the BP -C, Business Park Commercial District. Northern Sign Solutions, applicant. Continued from the March 7, 2011, April 4, 2011, and May 2, 2011 meetings. The applicant is requesting design review and approval for a new freestanding sign for Advanced Dermatology at 14130 60th Street North to replace the former Baker's Square sign. The main portion of the sign is a new metal panel with the words "Advanced Dermatology Care" "ADCderm.com 651- 430 - 2724" and "Advanced Esthetics" in black letters all on a tan background. The metal panel will be lit with an external linear light fixture. The metal sign panel is 9' by 8'6 ". Below the metal sign panel the applicant is requesting a color electronic message board measuring 2'5" by 8'3 ". The total proposed sign area is 97.125 square feet, which meets the sign ordinance requirements. The applicant, Dr. Ruth Rustad, owner of Advanced Dermatology, and Brian Larson who did work on the building and is helping out with the sign, presented an updated plan. Their understanding from the staff report is that the sign proper is generally acceptable and that the LED signage is more of an issue. The size of the sign and lighting fit within the design guide. Mr. Larson described that the signage is similar to their office in White Bear Lake, and that they are looking for a consistent 4 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 look, matching the paint color on the building and moving away from the look of Baker's Square which was what this building previously housed. Mr. Pogge explained that the applicant was here several months ago and asked if the city would consider allowing LED signs. The City's current zoning code prohibits reader boards except for time and temperature. There are four reader boards in the community that were granted use variances over time. He stated that the City would need to amend the code in order to permit new reader boards and that prohibiting reader boards is not uncommon in other communities. Banks have time and temp; gas stations have changing price signs. What the applicant is offering is a high quality video display board with graphics. Research has shown that the main concern is driver distraction, primarily when the message changes. If the City decides to allow these, it would be advisable to place restrictions on how often the message changes, once every 20 minutes for example, and that they have no flashing motion, just a static message that changes every once in a while. There are settings where flashing signs are appropriate such as pedestrian- oriented areas such as Times Square or Vegas. The question before the Commission is whether or not a change should be made to the City Code to permit electronic reader boards in the Community. The staff report explores some of the issues surrounding electronic reader boards. Existing references to electronic changeable message and image signs in the City Code are minimal, but include the following: Section 31 -509 Subd 5 titled "Prohibited Signs. The following signs are prohibited in all zoning districts." (d) "any sign that moves or rotates including electronic reader board signs, except approved time and temperature information signs and barber poles." As stated in the staff report, while electronic reader boards create mood, interest, and energy especially within pedestrian- oriented entertainment districts, studies conducted reveal that driver distraction continues to be a significant underlying cause of traffic accidents. Because there are many different technologies that can be used to create the image that is seen on a large video display sign, it is not feasible to develop technology based sign regulations, rather the regulations must address operational characteristics, capabilities and functions. Mr. Pogge pointed out that there are several types of electronic reader boards including: 1. Changeable Copy Sign, Electronic - Text -only electronic displays, typically used to advertise gas prices at service stations. 2. Electronic Graphic Display Sign - Electronic sign displaying both text and pictorial images. These signs have the technical capability to display high - quality, photo -like images in addition to text information. Due to the potential for greater distraction with this type of sign, generally communities will require minimum amount of time a sign is required to display a message (i.e. twenty minutes) and that no portion of the message may flash, scroll, or in any manner imitate movement. 5 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 3. Video Display Sign - Electronic sign whose display is characterized by motion and pictorial imagery. These signs may possess the ability to display television -like images and programs. 4. Time and Temperature Sign - Electronic sign displaying only time and temperature information. The applicant asked if color plays a role in the distraction factor. Mr. Pogge responded that it can play into it, especially at night. LED can judge light conditions and turn down its intensity at night. Dr. Rustad assured the Commission that she does not want an animated or showy Vegas look. Their sign would be for informational or advertising purposes (e.g., skin cancer awareness month, special treatments, etc.) The message would change once a day, if that. Staff recommends that the Heritage Preservation Commission approve the requested design permit without the LED Message Reader Board subject to the following conditions from Alternative 2 in the staff report: a. All revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission b. No additional signage without HPC approval c. The height of the sign shall not exceed 25 feet d. No electronic message board shall be used on the sign Commissioner Lieberman stated that he does not like electronic signs, even time and temperature ones. Commissioner Johnson expressed concern about the intensity of the sign's light, how it would be measured and kept in check, and that this type of sign could set a precedence for new sign types for restaurants and retail businesses, making them difficult to regulate in the future. Dr. Rustad explained that the sign will still have light but that it would not add more light or brightness. She asked that the Commission consider a lighted sign rather than one with light shining on it. Commissioner Lieberman said he favors directional light versus direct light, down lit rather than up lit. The applicant suggested that the City could regulate sign messages and set regulations on lighting with wattage. Commissioner Brach wondered if there was a sign type like a Kindle where it is not backlit but needs external lighting instead. Mr. Larson responded that there may be such technology out there, and that a lighting fixture could be directed. Commissioner Tomten expressed his view that technology is changing and HPC needs to be more open. He also feels that it is easier to control lighting being directed up rather than down. Commissioner Brach agreed that the technology is coming and HPC should be proactive. Commissioner Johnson felt that there needs to be more changes rather than with just one application and that the situation calls for more review. He likes the sign the applicants have designed to identify the business using the square footage available. Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Tomten, moved to approve Case No. DR/2011 -08 as submitted with the conditions in Alternative 2, that all revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission, no additional signage be added without HPC approval, the height of the sign shall not exceed 25 feet, and no 6 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 electronic message board shall be used on the sign. In addition, the light fixture shall be placed at the top of the sign to angle down rather than up. Motion passed unanimously. Further discussion followed with Commissioner Lieberman stating that pursuit of an electronic message board should remain open to further discussion depending on future ordinance changes, but cannot be approved by HPC at this time. If changes are made by City Council via ordinance, the applicant could come back and re -apply at that time. Case No. DR/2011 -30. Design review of facade improvement of the building located at 216 Myrtle Street West located in the PA, Public Administration District. HAF Architects, applicant. Continued from June 6, 2011 meeting. Last month, the Commission reviewed plans related to the exterior remodel of the old National Tea building located at 216 Myrtle St W for the USPS and additional multi- tenant space. At that time, the Commission requested that the applicant consider a building style from the time period the building was originally constructed and avoid a style that mimicked a Victorian commercial style. Since the meeting the architect has completed additional structure reviews on the building and has determined that it is not possible to extend the existing parapet walls. The attached plans seek to address the concerns of the Commission and reflect a lower parapet wall. On behalf of Trinity Lutheran Church, Mr. Hoefler is requesting the Heritage Preservation Commission to approve a design permit for proposed exterior work to the building and parking lot located at 216 Myrtle Street West. Mr. Hoefler agrees that it makes sense to celebrate the originality of the existing building as shown on the five drawings submitted. The plan is to remove the big parapet box with the 8" overhang, which will provide the opportunity to recreate the interior space of the old National Tea Grocery Store, and removal of the acoustical ceilings so you can look up into the exposed joints. The building was originally constructed of concrete block, which is clearly visible on three of the four exterior faces of the building. Face brick exists primarily below the large metal - trimmed plate glass windows on the front of the building, and a small amount also exists on the extreme eastern portion of the Myrtle Street facade. The remainder of the Myrtle Street facade is concrete block. No windows exist along Myrtle. The new plan will have simple rectangular windows for additional vision and painted masonry. Standard concrete block is left exposed and will be painted rather than covered. Visual interest will be created on the northeast and southeast corners by providing the post office with a raised parapet skinned with an IPE type of mahogany siding with channel lock, not a lap but a flush, and picking it up on the southeast side also. Both end caps will have a recessed entry. The plan will also lower the big sail that is there, getting it more in scale with the building and providing a wire mesh where the wind can blow through. This creates a nice visual bookend at both ends. Site improvements include adding a rain garden in the southeast corner, plazas that approach the building, and fixing the sidewalk that slopes. 7 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 The renovated building exterior calls for removing the existing storefront and wall system and replacing it with a new aluminum storefronts, additional windows along Myrtle, IPE Horizontal Ship Lap Siding with small reveals, and re- facing the former National Tea roof sign. The sign will just have the address on it, with no tenant signage added. The flag at the post office will identify that building. Commissioner Tomten inquired about the aluminum storefront. Mr. Hoefler replied that it will go to the bottom of the deck, fogged in white. The steel channel at the bottom of the deck will encase the insulation and roofing. The face brick on the south elevation will be covered, with trim where the brick meets the MCB. He stated that they looked at removing the brick, but with all of the columns and the way the brick wraps on the interior space and floor adjustments, it made more sense to keep it. Mr. Hoefler said that they removed the living wall to simplify the look along Myrtle. Commissioner Tomten stated that he would like to see the living wall back, that it was a nice way to break up the wall, adding more mesh that blends into the design, and also that he would like window openings to be flush. Mr. Hoefler agreed to add the wall back in to the design. When asked about the paint coloring for the masonry wall on Myrtle in order to tie it in with the ivy coming around, Mr. Hoefler responded that it would be charcoal — not black or silver — to be carried around to part of the back of the building. The return would be wood. The metal awning on the southeast is more of a sunshade and will have a silver look to it. The actual storefronts will be a bronze /black look. Lighting will be LED down- shining lights on the piers so whenever the plan shows a wood pier or sign, there will be lighting. The parking lot will be redeveloped with 111 spaces. The main new features of the lot are a rain garden at the southeast corner of the lot, a mail drop lane for the Post Office, vegetated islands, an exit -only curb cut on Myrtle Street with left and right turn lanes, a loading dock to the north side of the building, and replacement of some of the parking spaces directly in front of the building with sidewalk plaza areas. The light poles in the lot will remain or be relocated. Commissioner Brach, seconded by Commissioner Johnson moved to approve Case No. DR/2011 -30 with the three conditions listed in Alternative 1: all revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission, signage shall be approved as a separate design permit which must be approved by the HPC, and the City Planner shall review the architectural plans prior to the issuance of a building permit. In addition, the living wall will be added back in, with metal frame and mesh. Motion passed unanimously. Commissioner Lieberman expressed that he is very pleased with design and location, and that the architects had done a very good job. Case No. DR/2011 -36. Design review for signage, Vintage Green, located at 106 Main Street South in the CBD, Central Business District. Barbara Bergwall, applicant. 8 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 The applicant is requesting design review and approval to install a projecting sign for Vintage Green at 106 Main Street South. The proposed sign face is 36 inches wide by 24 inches tall for a total of 6 square feet. The sign, which will be mounted on an existing bracket, is to contain the words "Vintage Green" and "Consigner of New and Used Items." The lettering is proposed to be black, with green accents, and a black boarder all on a cream background. For retail storefront signs the Commercial Historic District Design Manual provides the size of signs shall be consistent with the Sign Ordinance. The total area of the sign face is 6 square feet, which meets the requirements of the zoning ordinance. Commissioner Johnson suggested that with the lighter background and color of lettering, a little heavier line work should be used so as not to appear washed out. Ms. Bergwall agreed and will convey these revisions to the artist who designed the sign. Staff recommended the following conditions for approval. 1. All revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission. 2. The bottom of the projecting sign must be a minimum of 8 feet above the sidewalk. 3. No additional signage without HPC approval. 4. No exterior lighting on the sign without HPC approval. Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Brach, moved to approve Case No. DR/2011 -36 as submitted and with the recommended conditions. Motion passed unanimously. Case No. DR/2011 -37. Design review of a signage for Health East Stillwater Clinic located at 2900 Curve Crest Blvd in the CRD, Campus Research and Development District. Cheryl Long O'Donnell, Visual Communications, applicant. The applicant is requesting design review and approval for a wall (building) and monument signage at 2900 Curve Crest Blvd for HealthEast. Dan Regan with Air Lake Development was present also. Ms. O'Donnell stated that they are asking for approval for three different signs. The first sign is proposed to contain the words "HealthEast Stillwater Clinic." The letters are individual aluminum channel letters painted white and mounted on the stone wall surface. The letters will be reverse halo lit with LED lighting on the back of the letters. The sign is 178" wide by 411" tall for a total of 91.12 square feet in area. The second sign is proposed window signage. Per the zoning code, window signage does not require a permit from the City if it covers no more than one -third of the glass area. Staff has reviewed the window signage and finds that it meets all code requirements. The window sign identifies HealthEast Clinic on the glass, covering 16 square feet. The white aluminum letters are designed so that they have depth to them, and will be attached to the glass, with vinyl - backing on the inside, so the letters look like they go through the glass. The only lighting will be inside the vestibule, or backlit. 9 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 For the third sign the applicant is seeking approval to construct a masonry monument sign to be used by both this building and a future building on the east side of the site. The sign includes brick and stone that match the new building. The dimensions of the overall monument are 9 feet tall by 16 feet wide. HealthEast would occupy an aluminum panel on half of the sign, covering a total of 22.2 square feet, with "HealthEast Stillwater Clinic" in raised black letters on a white background. There are panels for future tenants of the building on the other half of the sign. Commissioner Tomten asked about lighting. Ms. O'Donnell responded that the sign will be ground lit and raised about one foot above ground, and that this area will be kept clear of snow. The proposed signs have all been approved by the architectural review committee for the Bradshaw Addition development. Staff recommends approval as conditioned. 1. All revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission. 2. No additional signage without HPC approval. Commissioner Tomten, seconded by Commissioner Brach, moved to approve Case No. Dr /2011- 37 as conditioned, with the wall sign halo lit only. Motion passed unanimously. NEW BUSINESS Stillwater Cultural Landscape District Report Mike Pogge presented the report. Jackie Sluss from MnDOT was unable to attend tonight due to the government shut -down. Per the packet, after the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) issued their Record of Decision (ROD) for the St. Croix River Crossing project on November 13, 2006, MnDOT began completing mitigation work as outlined in the Section 106 Memorandum of Agreement (MOA). One of the required mitigation items for the new bridge was to complete a study on the Stillwater Cultural Landscape District (SCLD). This report was started in the spring of 2010 before the courts ruled on the Sierra Club's challenge to the project. Since the project was under contract, MnDOT has decided to complete the project. Jackie Sluss from MnDOT and Carole Zellie from Landscape Research LLC discussed the project scope with the Commission last spring. During the meeting the Commission made requests to add specific photo views to the study which was done. The attached report represents the final draft. The HPC now has the opportunity to provide MnDOT with comments on the plan before it is finalized. Overall staff finds the report to be well written and well documented, and believes it will be a great asset for the Commission and public for years to come. The League of Minnesota Cities has advised all cities that if the state shuts down, cities need to continue to send reports and other required filings. Therefore, even though representatives from MnDOT were unable to attend this meeting the City still needs to file its comments with MnDOT by July 14. 10 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 Mr. Pogge stated that this report documents the landscape and setting of Stillwater and development that has occurred in the valley, using old historic photos along with those from current times to show development patterns. HPC's charge is to review this final draft and make comments. Mr. Pogge will gather comments and draft a letter to MnDOT. It is expected that in either August or September MnDOT will come and formally present the final product to the commissioners. Commissioner Johnson pointed out that on page 7 the report talks about Lake McKusick being 800 feet above Lake St. Croix. That implies an elevation and it's really only 200 feet in elevation above Lake St. Croix. The incorrect figure implies mountainous topography which is not correct. He suggested changing the wording to "200 feet in elevation above Lake St. Croix." He noted also that there is not much emphasis on Lake St. Croix itself being part of the St. Croix River, extending above Stillwater and how that has changed the landscape. Since before 1930 or thereabouts when the dam was built it was a mud flat, a very different landscape than what it is now as created by the dam at Prairie Island. The other item that is part of our landscape is the wooded area on the Wisconsin side. Kolliner Park and the East Side Lumber mill are mentioned but are not put into perspective as being part of the landscape of the bowl or back drop looking out across the river. The green background is very much a part of Stillwater, and contributes to keeping the focus on the lake. Mr. Pogge stated that the report does extend to the Wisconsin side, so it should include landmarks in Wisconsin. Boundaries should be defined right at the beginning as to what defines Stillwater. Preservation Conference The packet includes a brochure for Preserve Minnesota - The 31st Annual Statewide Historic Preservation Conferenc. Mr. Pogge asked that commissioners let him know by the end of next week if they want to attend. Other Business Mr. Pogge asked that the Commission consider having staff give a brief summary presentation on each case right after it is introduced at meetings. He likes the way HPC operates as an informal group that interacts with applicants, but feels that such a presentation would help the audience to follow what is happening and help educate them on the ordinances that apply to each case. For example, the sign design could be up on the overhead, with staff pointing out features that are being discussed. Another example is seeing a drawing of the new post office would clarify changes proposed to the building. Commissioner Lieberman responded that he reads the introduction to each case from the packet so that those in attendance know what is being discussed. Other commissioners responded that adding a staff introduction could be good for public hearings but they like the informality for design reviews. Commissioner Lieberman stressed that HPC is an advisory commission, they don't grant variances, and they are careful about being aware of the audience and inviting them to speak. Cases are not decided by personal taste; HPC follows guidelines put forth by the Council, yet they try to be flexible. The commissioners like having a dialogue with those 11 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission July 6, 2011 coming before the commission and don't feel that they need more formality except with regard to public hearings. The general consensus is that the public needs to be better informed about what HPC does and what changes to a home require a hearing before HPC. HPC doesn't regulate paint color, or adding a porch for example. People think HPC controls what can or can't be torn down, and that is not the case. Mr. Pogge wondered how to get the message out. He plans to talk to realtor's group about what is needed for residential review (which is nothing), so that they are better able to inform potential buyers. Discussion of the City's Demolition Ordinance Update Mr. Pogge wrote a report about this but unfortunately it didn't get into the packet. At their last work session City Council said to proceed on working on revisions. There will be a public hearing in August with HPC and Planning, and one in September with City Council. From the work session came comments about the 50 -year rule. The 50 -year rule was set by following the park service and what is eligible to be on the National Register. That period of significance for Stillwater is pre -1921, when the last lumber mill closed. Mr. Pogge feels that 1945 would be a good starting year, as it signifies the end of World War II and many construction changes. His view it that setting a date is better than saying 50 years, but this would require an ordinance change. For example, in 20 years they could consider protecting Croixwood. Mr. Pogge will e -mail his report to the Commissioners. The original demolition ordinance was passed in 1995, so setting the date at 1945 was 50 years. Commissioner Lieberman stated that there may have been houses built in the 50s and 60s that were paradigms of a particular time and place. He is more comfortable with keeping the 50 -year timeline and having staff review cases. History is continually evolving. Houses built in the 50s and 60s may be worth saving, as well as the ones built before 1945. He suggested keeping 50 years as an age but still letting City staff determine historical significance. Other commissioners agreed that a definition is needed of Stillwater's historic period and that the ordinance should not only protect one style or time period. There being no further discussion, Commissioner Lieberman, seconded by Commissioner Brach, moved to adjourn at 9:33 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Carol Danielson Interim Recording Secretary 12