HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-05-03 HPC MINPresent: Howard Lieberman, Chair, John Brach, Micky Cook, Robert Goodman, Jeff Johnson,
Jerry Krakowski, Roger Tomten and Scott Zahren
Staff present: Planner Mike Pogge
Approval of minutes: Mr. Brach pointed out he was not officially a member as of the April 5
meeting; he was in attendance as a visitor. Mr. Brach also noted a misspelling of his name,
Brach, not Bracht. Mr. Lieberman, seconded by Mr. Johnson, moved approval of the April 5,
2010, minutes as corrected.
OPEN FORUM
No comments were received.
City of Stillwater
Heritage Preservation Commission
May 3, 2010
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Case No. DEM /DR/2010 -09 Demolition request for a 1 -1/2 story duplex and to consider a
request for review of a new residence to be moved onto the property in compliance with the
Neighborhood Conservation District (RB, Two Family Residential District) requirements at 415
Sherburne St. S. in the RB, Two Family Residential District. Stephen Schaffer, applicant.
Scott Wille, owner of STW Construction Services, was present representing the applicant. Mr.
Lieberman briefly reviewed the request and some information regarding the condition of the
existing structure. Mr. Johnson noted for the record that the existing structure is a duplex, not a
single - family home, as indicated in one portion of the agenda material. Mr. Wille noted that the
existing garage will remain, not be demolished, as indicated in the agenda material. Mr.
Johnson said the information submitted in support of the demolition request does cover the nine
required points for issuance of a demolition permit. Mr. Johnson said he thought one of the big
elements in considering a demolition request is how much a structure contributes to an historic
neighborhood, as well as the architecture of the structure. Mr. Johnson pointed out that much of
this neighborhood was on the fringe of Stillwater's development at the time it was built with
many of the neighboring homes from the 1950s and that vintage. Mr. Johnson said,
unfortunately, this home is in poor condition and is a reminder of what poor maintenance over
the years and lack of attention to maintenance can do; he said that is demonstrated in the letter
from the insurance carrier. Ms. Cook asked how long the current owner has owned the property;
Mr. Wille responded that the applicant has lived there for the 20 years he has owned the house.
Mr. Zahren wondered whether the applicant would take any better care of the home he
proposes to move to the property. Mr. Wille said there are medical conditions involved with the
maintenance of the house.
Ms. Cook said in her view each of these old homes are stand -alone homes, with historical
significance based on age alone; she said she was concerned about the precedent of tearing
down a building that looks better than a number of others in the City. Mr. Johnson agreed with
the concern regarding demolition by neglect and some people's notion that because it is an old
house it doesn't warrant the maintenance and care to preserve it or the effort to rehab it when
the house gets to this condition. Mr. Brach said he would not like to see a home of this vintage
demolished, but he said he thought the letter from the Semple Building Movers talking about the
conditions of the sills and joists is pretty significant problem when it gets into rehabbing a home
like this. Mr. Goodman said if the house had kept its original look, without the numerous
alterations over the years, it might have been a modest addition to the neighborhood, but after
what has been done to it through the years, it appears as an "unfortunate example" of domestic
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Heritage Preservation Commission
May 3, 2010
architecture. Mr. Goodman said he didn't see what could be done with the structure to make it
look any better or make it any more livable. Mr. Johnson noted the packet addresses all the nine
items required for the issuance of a demolition permit and said as the owner wants to stay at
this location and there's no reason to think the owner will make an effort to rehab the house, he
said he did not see a change in direction in this project by holding out for other opportunities.
Mr. Johnson moved to approve the demolition permit as submitted. Mr. Brach seconded the
motion.
Mr. Lieberman opened the public hearing. The resident of 1125 Pine St. spoke in favor of
approval of the request for demolition. He spoke of the many additions to the original structure.
He said residents in the neighborhood would appreciate the approval.
Mr. Lieberman noted that included in the documentation are a number of letters from nearby
residents all in support of the plans, along with several other letters that were received the day
of the meeting.
Mr. Lieberman said he was troubled by this request and noted that it is not often that a request
for demolition of an entire house comes before the Commission. While not a pristine example of
1875 architecture, Mr. Lieberman suggested that history is an evolving concept and as the City
begins to lose an historic property here and an historic outbuilding elsewhere, it begins to lose
the fabric of Stillwater. He also said he was troubled by demolition by neglect over a period of
20 years, for whatever the reason. He agreed that the cost of rehabbing a house is expensive
and economic need is a consideration. However, Mr. Lieberman noted there are a lot of historic
house in Stillwater that are simple workers' houses, not homes of B &B quality, and as they are
"shrugged off" one at a time, there will be nothing left over a period of years. He said he didn't
know if the Commission should automatically approve a demolition because a house needs
some work that will cost more than it would cost to demolish and put another structure on the
lot. Ms. Cook noted this is the Heritage Preservation Commission and identifying and protecting
historic structures is the Commission's overriding responsibility. The resident of 1125 Pine St.
said he would like to see something newer or something done to the existing structure because
of problems that have occurred there, including a recent drug overdose. Mr. Zahren noted that
tearing the house down and replacing with a 1960s home isn't going to solve any drug problem;
Mr. Wille clarified the drug problem involved a renter, not the homeowner, and that renter is
gone. Mr. Wille said he has been working with the applicant ever since the applicant received
the first letter from his insurance company looking at various options from re- roofing to jacking
up the basement, and explained how they got to the proposal to move a new house onto the
property. Mr. Lieberman suggested that the money proposed to be spent on buying and moving
the new structure onto the property would go a long way to improving the existing house. Ms.
Cook wondered whether the structural engineer who provided an opinion in this matter has
expertise in older structures. Mr. Brach said according to the materials submitted, there is no
doubt the existing structure can be renovated and said he thought the numbers provided were
very realistic cost estimates. Mr. Wille noted that the costs could go much higher than estimated
depending on the conditions of the joists. Mr. Johnson, who noted he is a structural engineer by
trade, talked of the problems that can be observed just by looking at the exterior of the structure;
he expressed his concern that it is neglect that gets a structure, such as this, to the condition
where it is not economical to continue to maintain /rehabilitate the structure — it becomes an
economic decision rather than one of historic preservation. Mr. Johnson said he would like to
see the existing home stay, but said his motion still stands based on the ordinance, suggesting
that perhaps the HPC needs to have some additional discussion regarding the current
ordinance. Ms. Cook wondered how much economic considerations have impacted HPC
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Heritage Preservation Commission
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decisions in the past; Mr. Johnson stated economic considerations are included in the ordinance
to have the homeowner think about other options, but is not a consideration for the HPC in
making its decisions. Mr. Tomten asked how long the owner has had a renter; Mr. Wille said for
at least 15 years. Mr. Tomten asked about the estimate for a new structure; Mr. Wille said that
was based on square footage. Mr. Krakowski asked if the cost for jacking up the house included
the addition; Mr. Wille said the cost was based on removing the addition. Mr. Wille said when he
got involved in this process, he did not expect to be at this point, noting that he contacted four
firms regarding jacking up the house and only one responded, the others wouldn't touch the
house due to its condition. Mr. Wille also stated both an architect and structural engineer believe
there have been at least four additions to the original structure. Ms. Cook asked if there are any
unique features to the interior of the house; Mr. Pogge said it is primarily modern inside.
Mr. Lieberman suggested that any action be based on the fact that the house has gone through
such substantial renovation since initially constructed that little of the integrity of the house
dating back to 1875 is still intact. Mr. Lieberman also suggested that the action reflect the fact
that the house is in such a state of deterioration that if left the way it is, it could become a
hazard. Mr. Johnson said while not part of his formal motion, his motion was based not only on
the fact that the request meets the requirements of the ordinance but, as stated in his preface to
the motion, also on the fact that the house proper has had significant modifications over the
years where the original historic integrity has been diminished by those additions, along with the
fact that the condition, unfortunately by neglect, has gotten to the point where many of the
historic elements of the house are lost or would be difficult to maintain or replace. Mr. Brach
seconded the amendment to the motion. Ms. Cook wondered about trees on the lot that might
be removed during the process of moving a new structure onto the lot; Mr. Pogge said by
ordinance that is limited to 20% of the trees on the lot, removal of any more would require the
property owner to submit a replacement plan for trees of similar size. Motion to grant the
demolition permit passed 6 -1, with Mr. Lieberman voting no.
Regarding the infill design review, Mr. Lieberman noted there are infill design guidelines that
must be followed. Mr. Tomten and Mr. Johnson noted the mass of the proposed replacement
structure is very similar to the rest of the neighborhood and of the same vintage as neighboring
houses. Mr. Brach said he appreciated the porch addition. Mr. Wille said they want to do
something to the front of the house. Mr. Johnson noted there are two views to the house and
what appears to be the front may have been a side door, which is why it appears somewhat
awkward compared to neighboring houses; Mr. Wille explained how the house would sit on the
property. Mr. Johnson suggested that the porch helps make cover up the lack of window
symmetry and make it appear more of a front. Mr. Tomten agreed that the porch helps and
noted that one of the characteristics of the older architecture of the town is the focus of the living
space on the street either using porches or bigger windows facing the street. Mr. Tomten asked
about the possibility of adding a window to the kitchen space to enhance the impression of
being the front of the house; Mr. Wille explained the interior of the house and placement of the
electrical services which would make that difficult. Mr. Tomten moved to approve the infill design
review permit, with the added condition that the contractor has expressed an interest in
preserving the existing trees at the front of the property. Mr. Lieberman seconded the motion.
Mr. Zahren asked about the front porch, whether it would or would not be included. Mr. Tomten
said his motion includes a front porch as indicated in the submitted plans. Mr. Wille clarified the
condition regarding the trees -- that any tree removed outside of 6' from the house must remain.
Motion passed 6 -0, with Mr. Lieberman abstaining. Mr. Tomten wondered whether if the City
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Heritage Preservation Commission
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had a low interest loan program available, which, he said, might have made a difference in this
case. Mr. Wille responded that the owner likely would have made application to such a program.
DESIGN REVIEWS
Case No. DR/2010 -08 Design review of proposed renovation of building exterior at 201 Main St.
S. in the CBD, Central Business District. Brian Larson, Larson Brenner Architects, applicant.
Continued from April 5, 2010, meeting.
Brian Larson was present, along with a representative from Gartner. Mr. Johnson clarified that
the project was proceeding with the plans approved last month, with the existing side windows
filled in and the awning treatment as discussed and approved; Mr. Larson responded in the
affirmative. Mr. Larson provided color samples, a gray for the painted metal — sunscreens and
steel channels above the windows and metal panels that form the cornice. A scale model of the
proposed signage, two -sided projecting sign, was also provided. The Gartner representative
explained some of the details of the proposed sign, including mounting and edging. Mr. Larson
said they would propose the signage to be down lighted with a linear fluorescent fixture or a
smaller LED linear version. Mr. Tomten asked about the sheen of the color, noting that if the
paint is as reflective as the sample, the lighting of the sign will be very difficult. Mr. Larson said
the paint would not be a high gloss. Mr. Johnson noted there are street lights and signal pole
nearby and wanted to be sure that the proposed signage and sun shield do not obstruct the
view of the signal Tight and that the signal pole /street lights don't result in too much competition
for the building signage. Mr. Larson said he has viewed the angles and the signage doesn't
come close to the street lights; the signage projects 3'4" from the face of the building so it won't
come close to having the impact that the larger overhang previously did. Mr. Johnson suggested
perhaps moving the signage to the other side of the canopy; Mr. Larson said the Gartner group
liked the proposed location but said he could bring that issue to their attention. Mr. Tomten said
he thought a gooseneck fixture, rather than a linear fixture, works better on a wall application at
controlling the light; he suggested a linear fixture might result in glare issues that might reduce
the effectiveness of the signage. Mr. Tomten suggested using several steel channels to recess
the Tight fixture in the channels and hang the sign down between the channels. Mr. Larson said
the fixtures they are looking at are adjustable at the one access; Mr. Larson said they would
look at that suggestion. Ms. Cook asked about the flags; the Gartner representative stated they
are proposed to add a graphic, color element and would not contain any verbiage. Mr.
Lieberman said he liked the banners and color addition. Mr. Larson stated there is a possibility
the owner would like to add some accent lighting to the exterior of the building; he provided a
drawing and possible fixtures of some proposed exterior lighting, which he said is not a definite
proposal at this point. The exterior lighting would be behind the sunscreens so they would not
be visible, with perhaps one centered by the main window and on the north side under the main
panels of brick to provide a pool of light; he said they would have to look at the building at night
after it is opened to see if that might make sense. Mr. Johnson clarified that at this point there is
nothing proposed for the east elevation other than the continuation of the cornice.
Mr. Krakowski spoke in favor of the more modern look of the lineal fixtures as opposed to the
gooseneck fixtures. Mr. Johnson said he thought the proposed accent lighting helps fill in the
extra space and provides more "windows" to the building at night, but said he was a little
concerned with the light that projects off the end and said he agreed with Mr. Tomten's
suggestion to bring the sign in to hide the fixture within the framing. Mr. Larson said they could
look at that suggestion to see if it works but said a concern might be from the straight on
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Heritage Preservation Commission
May 3, 2010
elevation that if the sign is set in, it would sit somewhere in the void instead of the brick. Mr.
Tomten said he liked the idea of accent lights but said his concern would be that the fixture not
provide a hot spot or bright bulb look at the bottom. Mr. Larson said the accent Tight is quite
small and should not be an issue as viewed from across the street. Mr. Johnson noted for the
record that the staff report does not indicate whether the signage is lighted.
Mr. Tomten moved to approve the signage with the four conditions listed in the staff report, with
a fifth condition that a linear light fixture is proposed for the projecting sign or some other
recessed or fully concealed lighting method, and a sixth condition approving the accent lights as
described in the handout dated May 3, 2010, with the condition that the accent lights be fully
shielded. In was noted that it is location of the Tens, not the light source, that is of importance.
Mr. Johnson seconded the motion. Ms. Cook asked if there are any restrictions from MnDOT
regarding projections from the north side of the building; Mr. Pogge said staff and applicant are
having conversations with MnDOT. Motion passed unanimously.
Case No. DR/2010 -10 Design review of signage for Dollar Tree at 2070 Market Drive in the BP-
C, Business Park Commercial District. Anchor Sign, LLC, applicant.
Mr. Pogge stated the applicant was unable to be present. Mr. Pogge stated the business is
expanding into an adjacent location. Mr. Johnson said while not an issue with this sign, he
thought there were sign criteria specific to this location; Mr. Pogge said he would look into that.
Mr. Zahren moved to approve as conditioned. Mr. Goodman seconded the motion; motion
passed unanimously.
NEW BUSINESS
Extension request for Design Review Permit No. 2008 -35 at 1221 Broadway St. N., new
construction in the Neighborhood Conservation District.
Mr. Lieberman moved to approve the requested extension. Mr. Zahren seconded the motion.
Mr. Johnson noted the permit was approved July 7, 2008, not 2007 as indicated in the agenda
information and the extension should be to July 7, 2011, not 2010 as indicated. Mr. Lieberman
accepted the scrivener corrections as a friendly amendment to the motion. Amended motion
passed unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Pogge stated he had met with Mike Koop at SHPO and would be meeting with him again.
The Preservation Awards will be presented at the May 18 Council meeting, he said. It was noted
the next retreat session will be at Teddy Bear Park on Wednesday, May 30, at 6 p.m.
Mr. Lieberman expressed his concern about the demolition process that occurred during this
meeting and suggested that some "tinkering" should be done with the demolition ordinance as it
stands. There was discussion about the possibility of a City low- interest loan program or other
incentive program to assist with rehabilitation of homes. Mr. Pogge suggested that language
needs to be added to the demolition ordinance that makes it more of a delaying ordinance —
currently the ordinance is primarily a "make application" ordinance. Mr. Pogge also suggested
that the ordinance has to have some rational basis for denial — a local designation district or
denial of properties on the National Register or a combination of the two. Mr. Johnson noted
that the current ordinance doesn't provide a strong position for denial if an applicant covers all
the nine points required by the demolition permit. There was additional discussion about the
demolition permit issued previously in the meeting and alternatives to demolition.
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Heritage Preservation Commission
May 3, 2010
Meeting was adjourned at 9:25 p.m. on a motion by Mr. Lieberman.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon Baker
Recording Secretary