HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-03-01 HPC MINCity of Stillwater
Heritage Preservation Commission
March 1, 2010
Present: Howard Lieberman, Chair, Jeff Johnson, Jerry Krakowski, Roger Tomten and Scott
Zahren
Absent: Micky Cook and Robert Goodman
Staff present: Planner Mike Pogge
Mr. Lieberman called the meeting to order at 7 p.m.
Approval of minutes: Mr. Lieberman, seconded by Mr. Zahren, moved approval of the minutes
of Feb. 1, 2010, as submitted. Motion passed unanimously.
OPEN FORUM
No comments were received.
DESIGN REVIEWS
Case No. DR /10 -03 Design review of signage for City parking ramp at 200 Second St. N. in the
CBD, Central Business District. City of Stillwater, applicant. Continued from Feb. 1, 2010,
meeting.
Mr. Pogge stated the Parking Commission has voted to continue to seek approval of the sign
previously reviewed by the HPC. Mr. Lieberman expressed his concern that the two City
commissions haven't been able to come to some kind of agreement/compromise. Mr.
Lieberman suggested that the signage as proposed is useless to motorist coming into town. He
reviewed options available to the Commission denial, suggesting a joint meeting of the two
commissions, or approval.
Commissioners reiterated some of their concerns with the proposal, including the size and the
location. Mr. Zahren wondered whether location was within the HPC's prevue; Mr. Johnson
noted there is precedent for the location in other instances with buildings with second- and third
floor tenants, pointing out the ordinance refers to location of signage at the point of entry. Mr.
Tomten pointed out that the universal graphic for parking, a circled black P, could easily fit
within the size sign permitted by ordinance. There was discussion of other directional signage
proposed by the Parking Commission. Mr. Zahren said he thought the City ought to be held to
the same standards as the public. Mr. Zahren also questioned the need for a big sign on the
parking ramp, considering all the other directional signage that is planned; Mr. Pogge said the
Parking Commission feels a 6' sign is disproportional to the size of the ramp, thus the request
for the larger sign. Mr. Johnson pointed out that it is not the HPC that wants the 6' sign that is
what the ordinance permits, and he suggested the Commission has no other option than to
deny the request because the size exceeds the ordinance. Mr. Pogge pointed out that in the
past, the HPC has approved such requests with the condition that the sign not exceed 6' or the
applicant secures a variance from the Planning Commission, and he noted the variance request
is scheduled to go before the Planning Commission at that Commission's next meeting. Mr.
Tomten questioned approving a 6' sign if the HPC hasn't seen such a design; he suggested
tabling the request and scheduling a joint meeting with the Parking Commission to help design a
sign that meets the ordinance and is most effective in directing traffic. Mr. Lieberman said he
also was leaning toward a joint meeting with the Parking Commission. Mr. Pogge noted the
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City of Stillwater
Heritage Preservation Commission
March 1, 2010
Parking Commission meets at 8:30 a.m. on March 16; Mr. Tomten and Mr. Zahren said they
would be able to attend to represent the HPC.
Mr. Lieberman, seconded by Mr. Zahren, moved to table this case and ask that the Planning
Commission table the variance request until the HPC and Parking Commission meet to see if an
acceptable compromise can be reached. Mr. Johnson again noted that this is not the opinion of
the Commission the signage as presented is non conforming; he suggested that the motion
should be to table, as the signage as presented is not permitted under the ordinance, until the
two Commissions look at other permitted solutions that better serve and direct the public, and to
request that the Planning Commission table the variance request as well. Mr. Lieberman and
Mr. Zahren agreed to the suggested language; motion passed unanimously.
Case No. DR /10 -04 Design review of new graphics of an existing multi- tenant sign at 1950
Northwestern Ave. in the BP -C, Business Park Commercial District. Spectrum Sign Systems
Inc., Mary Ferraro, applicant.
Randy Burns was present representing Spectrum Signs. Mr. Lieberman briefly reviewed the
proposal and staff report. Mr. Lieberman, seconded by Mr. Zahren, moved approval as
presented and conditioned. Motion passed unanimously. Mr. Johnson questioned whether
requests such as this, adding a new listing to an existing multi- tenant sign, should require HPC
review. Mr. Pogge suggested that might be a topic for discussion at the Commission's retreat.
Case No. DR /10 -05 Design review of signage for Stillwater Olive Oil Co. at 208 Main St. S. in
the CBD, Central Business District. Holly Arps, applicant.
The applicant was present. Mr. Lieberman reviewed the request and staff report. Mr. Johnson
asked Ms. Arps whether the lettering would be white or silver; Ms. Arps stated she had decided
on using the white lettering. Mr. Zahren asked about the Tight fixtures by the doors, as shown in
the submitted graphic. Ms. Arps said the decision has been made to eliminate the light fixtures,
a decision which the Commission appreciated. Ms. Arps briefly explained the nature of her
business, noting this is not a franchise business. Mr. Johnson, seconded by Mr. Zahren, moved
approval as conditioned, with the additional conditions that the lettering be either white or light
silver and that there be no wall sconce light fixtures. Motion passed unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
There was discussion regarding the dock permit for St. Croix Boat Packet and the recent
concerns expressed by owners of the Dock Cafe regarding the location of one of Mr.
Anderson's boats, the Majestic Star. Mr. Pogge noted that all the City marinas are required to
obtain dock permits, but St. Croix Boat Packet is the only one that has ever applied for the
required permit. Mr. Pogge also pointed out that it is the DNR, not the City, that has primary
authority over St. Croix River related issues. He stated the Army Corps permit allows St. Croix
Boat Packet to have four of its boats docked at the Stillwater location; any other of the
company's boats cannot be docked at Stillwater for more than 24 hours at a time. Mr. Pogge
noted the permit does not specify which of the four boats can be permanently docked here. Mr.
Pogge stated this year the DNR will be requiring St. Croix Boat Packet to maintain a log book
to more closely monitor the situation. Mr. Johnson suggested that the Majestic Star does look
out of proportion and
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City of Stillwater
Heritage Preservation Commission
March 1, 2010
scale; he noted that Mr. Anderson's original paddlewheel boats were compatible with the
downtown, but as the business has grown, he said, it has lost perspective of what's
desirable for Stillwater.
There was discussion of topics for the April 3 Commission retreat, which will be held at
Teddy Bear Park from 1 to 4 p.m. Mr. Johnson noted the Commission did discuss a
number of possible topics several meetings ago. Mr. Lieberman suggested discussion of
a history of the Commission, its authority and charges according to the design guidelines
and demolition ordinance. Mr. Tomten said Bonestroo, in the Comprehensive Plan
process, listed a number of things perceived as being deficient in the design guidelines,
which he thought would be good for discussion; he also suggested taping the retreat for
new members. Mr. Zahren spoke of the ordinances and laws the HPC must consider.
There was some discussion of perhaps setting up a subcommittee to review minor
changes, such as the addition to the tenant listing signage earlier in this meeting; Mr.
Lieberman spoke of the importance of following process in considering all requests.
There was a brief discussion on downtown trash enclosures. Mr. Pogge said the City is
sending out a questionnaire to property owners regarding this issue. Mr. Pogge said
there has been some discussion at the Council level of having exterior remodeling serve
as a trigger for requiring trash enclosures. Mr. Zahren noted that no one likes to see
trash sitting out in the open, but no businesses want an enclosure near their buildings.
Mr. Johnson said perhaps requiring trash to be stored inside would result in some action;
Mr. Pogge noted there is not permissible according to health codes.
Mr. Pogge stated MnDOT is working on a cultural landscape district as part of the new
bridge mitigation efforts. He said MnDOT has agreed to meet with the HPC on March 22
or March 29 to discuss its plans, and he suggested this might be the HPC's opportunity
to push for something more than the planned picture book. After discussion, it was
agreed to invite MnDOT representatives to attend the next regular HPC meeting on April
5.
Mr. Johnson asked about the current vacancy on the HPC. Mr. Pogge said there are two
applicants, and he expects interviews to be scheduled by the next meeting. Mr. Johnson
said he would be interested in participating in the interviews.
The Commission acknowledged an e -mail from Cindy Kneisl, with no action taken. Mr.
Pogge stated the structure in question does meet code.
Mr. Johnson, seconded by Mr. Krakowski, moved to adjourn at 8:55 p.m. Motion passed
unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon Baker
Recording Secretary
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1 H E 1 EE 1 N P L 1E C E. Of M INN S O I A
Heritage Preservation Commission
DATE: April 1, 2010 CASE NO.: 10 -03
APPLICANT: Stillwater Parking Commission
PROPERTY OWNER: City of Stillwater
REQUEST: Design Review of proposed signage for the Stillwater Parking
Ramp
LOCATION: 200 2nd St N
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISTRICT: CC Community Commercial
ZONING: CBD Central Business District
HPC DATE: April 5, 2010
REVIEWERS: Community Dev. Director
PREPARED BY: Michel Pogge, City Planne'
DISCUSSION
The applicant is requesting design review and approval for a sign at 200 2nd St N for the
new Stillwater Municipal Parking Ramp. The sign is proposed to contain the words
"Public Parking" in white. The letters will be 1.25 feet tall made of Spanjer Cast
Aluminum Letters. These are the same style letters that are currently on the front of the
ramp. The total area for the Public Parking letters is 17.1 square feet. Additionally, the
Stillwater parking logo is proposed to be affixed between the entrance columns on
Second Street. The sign will be created out of High Density Foam or similar material.
The sign will be approximately 3- inches think with the white board and white "P" set
out 3/5 of an inch from the surface of the sign. Colors will follow those shown on the
attached G1, Parking Lot Sign Study. The sign will have a 1.5 foot radius for a total of
4.7 square feet. The overall square footage for the building sign is 21.8 square feet.
For retail storefront signs, the Commercial Historic District Design Manual provides the
size of signs shall be consistent with the Sign Ordinance. The zoning ordinance states
building signs in the CBD '...may have an aggregate area not exceeding one square foot
for each foot of building face...'. The parking ramp has 194 feet facing Second Street
200 2nd St N
Page 2
North. The total sign area of the proposed sign is 21.8 square feet, which is smaller than
allowed under the zoning ordinance.
FEBRUARY 1, 2010 ACTION BY THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION
At the February 1, 2010 meeting, the HPC reviewed the design review permit. The HPC
raised concerns about the size, location, and effectiveness of the proposed sign. The
HPC suggested looking at wall signage and a simple "P" logo as a projecting sign. The
HPC also asked that the Parking Commission review their overall parking lot way
finding program as an additional option for getting people to the ramp. The HPC
tabled action on the request to allow time for the Parking Commission to review the
HPC's concerns.
FEBRUARY 16, 2010 ACTION BY THE DOWNTOWN PARKING COMMISSION
At the February 16, 2010 meeting, staff reviewed the HPC comments with the Parking
Commission related to the proposed parking ramp sign request. The Parking
Commission discussed the comments and felt strongly about their proposed sign. The
Commission voted unanimously to continue pursuing their original proposal.
MARCH 1, 2010 ACTION BY THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION
At the March 1, 2010 meeting, the HPC again reviewed the design review permit. The
HPC again tabled action on the request and requested that two representative from
each commission meet to discuss the sign proposal. The HPC also requested that the
Planning Commission delay action on the variance until such time that the HPC can
resolve their issues with the Parking Commission.
MARCH 8, 2010 ACTION BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION
The Planning Commission held a public hearing on a variance request for the proposed
projecting sign. The Commission voted to table the issue to their April 12 meeting.
MARCH 18, 2010 ACTION BY THE DOWNTOWN PARKING COMMISSION
For the March 18th Parking Commission meeting, staff prepared an alternative plan for
the Parking Commission to consider that eliminates the projecting sign and uses
building signage along second street. The proposed signage also meetings the
requirements of the City Code. The Parking Commission voted unanimously to
proceed with this alternative design and directed staff to secure the appropriate permit
approvals.
ALTERNATIVES
The Heritage Preservation Commission has the following options:
1. Approve the request.
2. Deny the request.
3. Continue the request for more information.
200 2nd St N
Page 3
RECOMMENDATION
Review and take an action
CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL
1. All revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage
Preservation Commission.
2. No additional signage without HPC approval.
attachments: Drawing /photo of the proposed sign