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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-02-01 HPC MINCity of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission February 1, 2010 Present: Howard Lieberman, Chair, Robert Goodman, Jeff Johnson, Roger Tomten, Scott Zahren and Jerry Krakowski. Absent: Micky Cook Also present: City Planner Mike Pogge, Kurt Newcomb, Downtown Parking Commission Mr. Lieberman called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Approval of minutes: Motion to approve the minutes of January 1, 2010, with correction under New Business to replace south on 2 instead of "west on myrtle Motion passed unanimously. OPEN FORUM No comments were received. PUBLIC HEARINGS. None DESIGN REVIEWS. Case No. DR /10 03. Design review of signage for the City Parking Ramp located at 200 2nd St No in the CBD, Central Business District. City of Stillwater, applicant. Howard Lieberman introduced the project and gave the background on the sign. It is a proposed projecting sign face is 3'2 -3/4" wide by 6 feet tall for a total of 19.375 square feet. The sign is proposed to contain the circular parking lot "P" logo with the words Public Parking in the lower part of the circle. Above the parking logo will be the Stillwater Logo and a metal arch. The sign is proposed to be unlit. For retail storefront signs the Commercial Historic District Design Manual provides the size of signs shall be consistent with the Sign Ordinance. The zoning ordinance allows projecting signs of up to six square feet in size. The proposed sign is larger than what the code allows. City staff has presented various projecting sign proposals to the HPC in December 2009 and January 2010. Comments from the two HPC meetings were relayed to the Parking Commission during the Parking Commission's January 14, 2010 meeting. At that meeting, the Parking Commission discussed the HPC concerns. The Parking Commission felt that where most downtown businesses have 24 to 26 foot wide store fronts the ramp is a different scale being about 200 feet wide and 4 levels tall. Additionally, the Parking Commission felt that projecting signs on Main Street are 1 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission February 1, 2010 intended for pedestrians where the signage on the ramp is intended to inform motorists. The Parking Commission believes a 20 square foot sign is justified in this situation. Finally, the Parking Commission has worked hard to establish a recognizable image in its parking lot signage. Therefore, the Commission requested staff to forward a formal design permit request to the HPC for consideration. Kurt Newcomb, Chairman, was present from the Downtown Parking Commission. There was no change from the last discussion. Concern is the size of the sign in a residential area and it may not be the greatest need of people coming up and down Myrtle Street. There is a lot of additional signage that will needed to direct people to the ramp. The Commission was hopefully that this one sign on the building isn't going to be the main signage leading people to the ramp because it isn't in a very good location to do that. Discussion on where other signs should be located in the City directing people to the ramp and then discuss what signage would be appropriate with this building. Once you get through the gauntlet of where other signage would be located within the City on where to get to the ramp this particular sign really wouldn't have any reason to be bigger because if the other signage is doing its job. Kurt Newcomb was asked what was changed from the last meeting. The sign will be a nonlit sign which will be nonintrusive and that the Downtown Parking Commission wants to make sure that people from out of town can actually see the building. They want to make easier for people to see the building in an unfamiliar area. The Commission agreed that they want to make sure that the people coming into town on the primary access points have direction to the parking because it isn't on Main Street and it isn't on Myrtle so you have to get them directed to the parking and it isn't really apparent until you get some direction to the building. Kurt Newcomb said the designer did a really good job not making it look like a parking ramp. The Downtown Parking Commission just wants to make the ramp do its job for the City of Stillwater. 2 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission February 1, 2010 Michel Pogge is going to the February Downtown Parking Commission meeting and will revisit the entire downtown directional signage. There are about nine parking lots in the downtown area and the signage has the Stillwater logo with parking and arrows which were done in the1980s when the city switched from having a contract management firm to in- house. The directional signage is pretty dated and is going through a process not only for this facility but for all parking lots to add new signs. We are going to with the P logo which is very similar to what you see in the parking lots today and just simple arrows below it which are flexible over time. Bob Lane in 2003 did an entire master plan for parking lot signage and that is where we are getting parts of this from. It will be going to the Downtown Parking Commission in February and anticipating having this up in April -May timeframe. The green will tie back to the existing program. It will have a dark blue logo which is the original Stillwater logo. Commissioner's appreciate the one of the goals of the commission is to be consistent and fair throughout this particular zoning area. A couple of points is that they want people to find there way to the facilities and primary users of that would be visitors that aren't familiar with the community and because it is one block off the main grid to get directional signs off of Main as you go up commercial and point them up the hill. The proposed sign doesn't face Commercial and you would only see the garage doors. The other main access is coming down Myrtle Street and there to direct them steadily down to 2 Street but even better up at 4 Street have them come in the upper portion before they commit to coming down the hill where there is more distractions and those type of signs are going to get people to the facility. Here you have one sign that is mounted on the second story which is kind of high and is not really where you would be looking for the store front type signs you would have to come down that hill and look past the Lowell Inn to see the sign if there wasn't and indication on myrtle street that there was a parking facility there. We want to make sure that we get good visibility off the primary streets. Kurt Newcomb said the sign is proposed to be hung from the building. Commissioners noted that it would visible only from 2 but not from Commercial Street. The most effect access is how the directional signs are going work and that is one thing that we didn't really see. Some concern was where the brackets are located. The Lowell Inn has some 3 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission February 1, 2010 ornamental trees that in the front of building that will block the visibility of the sign. The request to allowing a larger sign in an area that probably won't be that visible from the primary access which is the Myrtle Street intersection and second concerned is that since the projecting sign is meant for motorist that is should larger. Every business on Main Street is trying to get signage for motorist as well. This is counter intuitive to what the commission is trying to do with projecting signs in the downtown. A 2 foot "P" would work just fine especially for people driving south on 2 Street. Perhaps the thing to do would be is that there are couple of street lights in the boulevard in front of the parking ramp and it might be possible to locate one of the "P "'s off of a light stand if possible instead of hanging on the building so it wouldn't be hidden. It is more visible from the south especially. As far as incorporating the logo and the arch top and such, going back to the parking plan the arch top was introduced to add gooseneck lighting. Perhaps look at the city logo going over the doors. The view going up Commercial Street is pretty brutal but there are a couple of spots to introduce a city logo. What seems to be missing is a master sign plan that has been asked for from other building owners which would show how it relates not only this building but the directional signs and without that it's hard to identify how effective or the purpose of this sign is other than identifying home base. This isn't going to draw people off of Main or Myrtle Streets. It is invisible from either location. That is the difficulty with it. How do we most effectively and efficiently get the public where they need to be. A sign of this size being placed that high being consistent with the intent with the design of the building as we went through it was to keep pedestrian scale with the entry way the kind of the store front windows of the stair wells keep in focused and set up like other commercial buildings that have a pedestrian access and then we put a sign half way up the building that is four times the design guide it just over scales the building. People won't really see this sign. Mike Pogge agreed to work with the parking commission to take another look at the sign package. Motion to table the design review to come up with something that is feasible and practical. Motion to table, motion passed. Two things; one is the design guidelines that have size limits, designs and placement locations and sign that goes up that serves its purpose and is effective as possible and 4 City of Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission February 1, 2010 best exposure and value out of the sign. Directional signs on Myrtle and Main Street signs to point to destination. Kurt Newcomb was thanked by the Commission for his input and for coming to the meeting. OTHER BUSINESS Retreat Discussion. Two potential facilitators Tined up for the retreat. Have a meeting with just the commissioners and than another with the facilitators. Consideration of making the council representative a voting member which would fill vacancy on commission. Appealed from the commission to council does it pose a conflict. Ability to participate in appeal process. Parks and Planning have voting council representatives. Thinking of having two meetings one without a facilitator and one with a facilitator. CLG Grant. SHPO is supportive of this. The CLG is a federal grant and needs to be matched with local dollars which can be state or city. The CLG is $8001 and $6999 is Legacy dollars to fund projects in the City. There is an annual national commissioners conference in June or July. Motion to moved to adjourn at 8 p.m., seconded. Motion passed. Respectfully submitted, Shelia Wiegand Acting Recording Secretary 5 Heritage Preservation Commission DATE: February 26, 2010 CASE NO.: 10 -03 APPLICANT: Stillwater Parking Commission PROPERTY OWNER: City of Stillwater REQUEST: Design Review of proposed signage for the Stillwater Parking Ramp LOCATION: 200 211d St N COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISTRICT: CC Community Commercial ZONING: CBD Central Business District HPC DATE: March 1, 2010 REVIEWERS: Community Dev. Director PREPARED BY: Michel Pogge, City Planner DISCUSSION The applicant is requesting design review and approval to install a projecting sign for the Stillwater Parking Ramp at 200 2nd St N. The proposed sign face is 3'2 -3/4" wide by 6 feet tall for a total of 19.375 square feet. The sign is proposed to contain the circular parking lot "P" logo with the words Public Parking in the lower part of the circle. Above the parking logo will be the Stillwater Logo and a metal arch. The sign is proposed to be unlit. For retail storefront signs, the Commercial Historic District Design Manual provides that the size of signs shall be consistent with the Sign Ordinance. The zoning ordinance allows projecting signs of up to six square feet in size. The proposed sign is larger than what the code allows. The Parking Commission feels that where most downtown businesses have 24 to 26 foot wide store fronts the ramp is a different scale being about 200 feet wide and 4 levels tall. Additionally, the Parking Commission felt that projecting signs on Main Street are intended for pedestrians where the signage on the ramp is intended to inform 200 2nd St N Page 2 motorists. The Parking Commission believes the size request is justified. Finally, the Parking Commission has worked hard to establish a recognizable image in its parking lot signage. Therefore, the Commission requested staff to forward a formal design permit request to the HPC for consideration. A member of the Parking Commission will be at the meeting to discuss the sign with the HPC. FEBRUARY 1, 2010 ACTION BY THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION At the February 1, 2010 meeting, the HPC reviewed the design review permit. The HPC raised concerns about the size, location, and effectiveness of the proposed sign. The HPC suggested looking at wall signage and a simple "P" logo as a projecting sign. The HPC also asked that the Parking Commission review their overall parking lot way finding program as an additional option for getting people to the ramp. The HPC tabled action on the request to allow time for the Parking Commission to review the HPC's concerns. FEBRUARY 16, 2010 ACTION BY THE DOWNTOWN PARKING COMMISSION At the February 16, 2010 meeting, staff reviewed the HPC comments with the Parking Commission related to the proposed parking ramp sign request. The Parking Commission discussed the comments and felt strongly about their proposed sign. The Commission voted unanimously to continue pursuing their original proposal. ALTERNATIVES The Heritage Preservation Commission has the following options: 1. Approve the request. 2. Deny the request. 3. Continue the request for more information. RECOMMENDATION Review and take an action attachments: Drawing /photo of the proposed sign CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL 1. All revisions to the approved plan shall be reviewed and approved by the Heritage Preservation Commission. 2. The bottom of the projecting sign must be a minimum of 8 feet above the sidewalk. 3. No additional signage without HPC approval. 4. The projection sign be reduced to be no more than six square feet or secure a variance from the Planning Commission to allow the sign area to exceed the allowable square footage. If the sign is reduced in size the new sign design shall be reviewed by City Staff before installation. Downtown Stillwater Parking Commission Meeting Minutes February 16, 2010 EXCERPT Commissioners present: Curt Newcomb, chair; Jeff Johnson, vice chair; Dave Junker. Commissioners absent: David Korte; Kevin LaCasse. Staff present: Bill Turnblad, Community Development Director; John Gannaway, Police Chief; Dennis Pasket, Parking Enforcement, Mike Pogge, City Planner Chair Newcomb called the meeting to order at 8:33 AM. OLD BUSINESS Parking ramp signaqe City Planner Mike Pogge explained the status of the parking ramp signage. The Heritage Preservation Commission did not support the 12 square foot projecting sign- proposed by the Parking Commission. Mr. Pogge indicated that the HPC felt that building signage would be more effective. They prefer a 6 square foot sign that consists only of a capitalized "P" on a circular black background as a projecting sign. The size they prefer is consistent with the pedestrian scale associated with a historic Main Street. Mr. Junker noted that the use of this parking ramp on Second Street is for motorists and pedestrians. A motorist needs a larger sign than a pedestrian. Moreover, compared to a 25 foot wide storefront on Main Street, which is allowed a 6 square foot projecting sign, the 200 foot wide parking ramp's proposed 12 square foot sign is not disproportionately large. Mr. Newcomb added that to see the projecting sign from Myrtle Street or Mulberry Street, a motorist needs more than a 6 square foot sign. The Parking Commission unanimously agreed to continue pursuing the 12 square foot projecting sign.