HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-04-09 CC MIN•
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COUNCIL CHAMBER
STILLWATER, MINNESOTA
SPECIAL MEETING - BID OPENING
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
ALSO PRESENT:
PRESS:
Citizens:
This was the day and time for the bid opening for the proposals for feasible
and prudent alternatives to the destruction of the property known as the "Old
Nelson School ".
The following proposals were received and opened:
Proposal No. 1
Proposal No. 2
Proposal No. 3
Proposal No. 4
Proposal No. 5
Councilwoman Bodlovick, Councilmen H. Peterson, Powell
Mayor Junker
Councilman Roger Peterson
Finance Officer /Coordinator, Kriesel; City Attorney,
Magnuson; City Clerk, Schnell
Stillwater Gazette - Bob Liberty
James Hunt, Shirley Tibbetts, Jeanne Stenerson, Bob Hagstrom,
Marie Zoller, Jeff Zoller, Mr. & Mrs. Mark Carroll, Mr. & Mrs.
Dick Emanuelson, Mrs. Ben Schaffer, Richard Kilty, Al Ranum
Proposal: Duplex of 3 to 4 bedrooms - one unit on the first floor
and the other on the second floor with a garage in the
basement.
Estimated cost of the remodeling would ve $20,000 and
all possible labor would be done by his family. Did not
offer a performance bond since he owns the house just to the
north of the school building.
Richard S. Kilty
118 West Oak Street
Stillwater
Purchase Price: $10,000
Proposal. Demolition of the building and the construction of two
single family homes
Richard Huston
P. 0. Box 252
Stillwater
Price dependent upon density - $500 per unit
for lst thru 5th units
One Unit $500.00
Two Units $1,000.00
Three Units $1,500.00
Four Units $2,000.00
Five Units $2,500.00
$2,500 per unit for 6th thru 8th units
Six Units $5,000.00
Seven Units $7,500.00
Eight Units $10,000.00
Daniel E. Grogan
805 West Orleans
Stillwater
Purchase Price $2,500.00
Single Family Residence owned by resident family
Jeffrey Zoller
703 West Oak Street
Stillwater
Purchase Price: $2,000.00 (included check for 5%
of the bid $100.00)
Four Units- no garages and 8 off - street parking spaces. Some variances
needed and would like to waive the performance bond. (Mr. Zoller read the
cover letter on his proposal booklet)
Purchase Price:
April 9, 1979 7:00 P. M.
Tom Strandberg
1006 South First Street
Stillwater
Purchase Price: $1.00
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April 9, 1979
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DISCUSSION ON THE PROPOSALS
#1 Mary Emanuelson reported that Mr. Strandberg has been two years putting a roof
on his home with the use of his family and questioned how he could renovate this
building within the time limit required - also he does not have a permit for his
roofing job.
#2 No comments
#3 Mrs. Emanuelson stated she had gotten a call from Mr.Houston stating that he
wanted to buy their property in order to save the school and in talking to her,
he stated that if she did not want to sell her house and stay there and they
could sell just a part of the property and make a lot of money that way and
she felt that man was crazy - he would never be able to put up and do what he
says he is going to do. She had told him that this was cause for harrassment.
JAMES HUNT felt that this was a slander and that Mr. Houston was a friend of
his and felt that this was entirely uncalled for.
MARK CARROLL did not believe that it was feasible and to do what he proposes
to do.
#4 No comments
#5 MR. JAMS HUNT stated that he felt there were realistic proposals; personally,
and not for RTR he would tend to favor Jeff's proposal.
MAYOR JUNKER did not feel that there was a realistic proposal - Jeff Zoller
was the only one that was realistic outside of Mr. Kilty's and it is a two
year plan again.
MR. HUNT stated that the Grand Grage has been going for three years and that
has not been an eyesore - MAYOR JUNKER did -ot feel that we could compare that
since it is downtown - eventually if something is not done with the Nelson
School it is going to burn down.
MR. HUNT felt that Jeff's proposal was valid and he felt that Jeff could do it.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that the City took a headache from the School District and
that the City is father behind right now than we were six months ago or a year
and a half ago, and that they are just putting salt on the wounds right now -
the building would be down right now and here we get a proposal for $8,000
less and he wanted to know if this was fair to the City Council to wait for that.
MR. HUNT stated that it is going to pay more taxes.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that the four units
price of two homes that Kilty would put
but MR. HUNT felt that it would be. He
vulnerable proposals made here that the
an alternatire to demolition - there is
MR. MAGNUSON felt that the Council should
a further determination of facts and seek
to the feasibility of the plans submitred
and he would be glad to make inquiries on
back to the Council - have more facts and
is feasible.
isn't going to be appraised at the
up there which would be $70,000 apiece
stated that RTR feels that if there are
City is compeled to seek proposals as
a court order.
MAYOR JUNKER did not feel that Mr. Houston's proposal was realistic - he would
be there 25 years and the building would still stay the same.
SHIRLEY TIBBETTS stated that you do not know that, for sure and talking about
being unfair . .. as to salt on wounds, and everything.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that this is salt on wounds right here - the City turned
down the Austin - Hilleren proposal at $23,500 because they did not have their
financing available.
COUNCILMAN POWELL asked the City Attorney how much time was required on the
initial bid to establish the fact that they had financing. MR. MAGNUSON stated
that he thought that we required that they have it within 45 days on the accept-
ance and they did not have to have it at the time of the bid opening.
Discussion was held as to whether or not the Austin - Hilleran bid was legal at
the time and questions were raised as to where he was at this time and it was
stated that possibly he was scared off.
MR. HUNT felt that we had a legal bid with Jeff Zoller.
MARK CARROLL felt that this would be too much desnity for this crowded neighbor-
hood.
make inquiry of each proposal to make
advice of the Building Inspector as
and seek the City Engineer s opinion
the availability of financing and report
then make a determination whether it
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April 9, 1979
DICK KILTY stated that it was not clear in his mind how the bids are going to
be considered - it didn't state just what is a feasible use for the school and
asked the Council what they feel is a feasible use for the school - he would
like to ask what is a feasible use. Another thing that concerned him about
the proposal, that it stated in there that you require a performance bond of
1259, of the cost of the !mprovement, but then there is an out when you say
that you would replace that with some other guaranteee - what would be another
guarantee?
MR. MAGNUSON stated that first of all it is not clear what feasible and prudent
mean= - the Supreme Court has desk with it several times - they are economically
feasible is one thing - the zoning considerations are atother and whether or not
it is prudent and feasible is something that the Council will have to determine
and there was no guidelines for that and that is the reason there was no definition
setforth in the invitation to bid.
MR. KILTY felt that each member of the Council has to set some standards or
determine some standards - what they think is feasible and he felt that should
be discussed or brought out publicly - have to judge this matter on some standards.
COUNCILWOMAN BODLOVICK stated that her main concern all along is what the
neighbors have to live with - if they prefer his proposal to four units or what-
ever and she was sure at one time they did accept a maximum of four units and
two professional offices in that building - they are directly affected as far
as she was concerned. In view of the court action taken that the Council also
has to look at now as to what is prudent and feasible. Some where along the
line the Council will have to make the determination and she would like to make
the best determination and to please all of us but she did not know if that is
possible, but she will attempt to.
MR. MAGNUSON it is a decretionary decision with the Council whether or not the
person has the ability to carry through with the project and the 125% performance
bond payment is specially difficult to get on a project of a large size and some-
one could be very sound but not able to secure a bond.
MR. KILTY felt that this was the root of the problem when you see what is happen-
ing downtown - they are forclosing on the Restoration - another one has got the
door locked and another one is in trouble - and he felt that the City has to
demand that to insure completion. He felt that Mr. Zoller has a fine proposition,
but he could get sick or could have hard times and the neighb ors would be stuck
with an "eyesore ". He could not see how they could waive that requirepment since
you want that building completed.
MR. MAGNUSON stated that it is within the Council's discretion to require that
and it is within their discretion to waive it.
MAYOR JUNKER askee Jeff if he was a member of the RTR and Mr. Zoller replied that
he was.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that in the proposal from Mr. Grogan he stated that he would
be found by all of the conditions of any purchase or development agreement entered
into and he is going to make it a single family residence - it is probably more
realistic that the neighbors would agree more with Grogran's program that they
would with any other program since it wouldn't institute any more than one
apartment.
BOB HAGSTROM felt that the tax base would be more realistic for bur units - give
or take with a value of $50,000 or $60,000 each.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that anything over two units requires a variance and that the
Council would have to look at it a little bit - you might not care if there are
eight units there, but you do not live there and that is the general feeling as
long as I do not live there - let them have it - but if the prison comes next to
my house, don't build it there - I live there - he stated that he was not against
saving the Nelson School but he was against the time that has already been spent -
not the time on his own personal time, but the City has been a year and a half
and even price wise - the $2,000 that is offered is already eaten up by the Public
Works Department putting plywood on the building and the other general maintenance-
we are just going backwards. He felt that Mr. Zoller was a great guy and a great
architect - how long is the Council going to continue - that is all he asks - another
two years.
MR. ZOLLER felt that he would need two years and he would like to waive that.
MRS. OSCAR LONG asked where Jeff was going to find people who would rent an apart-
ment for $420.00 a month and JEFF stated that they did a market survey in the area
and that three bedroom homes smaller than this go from $375.00 to $500.00 per unit -
he would not be in it unless he is convinced that he can make it.
She asked how long those families stay there and could not see anyone paying
that kind of rent.
JEFF stated chat he is also concerned about who will be renting since he will
be living there too and he felt confident that there is a market for these types
of units.
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A April 9, 1979
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THERESA SCHAFFER cited that there was a similar case on Sixth Avenue South
and the owner also lived there and they had more police calls than any other
place in Stillwater. Then this party moved up on Third Street and moved out of
the building and left the problems behind.
MR. ZOLLER stated at $420.00 per month it will be a different kind of people
renting from him.
MAYOR JUNKER asked Mr. Zoller if he had worked out the cost estimates which
appear in his proposal and he replied that he had Bob Hagstrom and John Larson
review them and they obtained bids to see how close the estimates were and they
were very much in line. The building will be insulated. The total cost is the
project is $143,130.00.
MARY EMANUELSON stated that last evening she had talked to Dick Olsen who went
through the building and his thinking estimate was around $200,000 and there are
other bids that are as high as $300,000 and those bidders felt that it was virtually
impossible to renovate that building for that price.
MR. ZOLLER stated that he will be doing most of the labor and that a major portion
of the cost. They usually figure that 507 of the cost is for labor and he is
able to do this because he will be living there and it will be inspected, and he
will not do his own plumbing and other work unless it is instated as it will affect
his insurance rates. He will not have to have a sprinkler system or an elevator
since they are not required by the code.
COUNCILMAN POWELL felt when the Mayor stated that we are going backwards, that we
are going backwards, in his opinion, when we don't try to preserve the buildirg
where it costs the City so much for plywood to cover the windows or whatever -
that has been done. The verdict that the City received that they must exerc
all prudent and feasible means of keeping the building. He. felt that the only way
they can do that is to turn these bids first over to the City Attorney to see if
they are a legal bid and secondly if there are some that are, they then be given
to a contractor or a contractor and the building inspector and have them look at
them and say that you can do it this way or you can't do it this way and that
would be the proper action to take. Then whatever comes of that the Council can
determine which direction they want to go. If the Council is going to follow the
ruling that was handed down to them, that they have no other alternative and that
if none of them are worthwhile, then Mr Kilty should get it - if there is no
way of saving the building, that Mr. Kilty should have it and that would be as
fair as possible - he would like to see as few residences as possible, but he
was not sure that four was too many - the original proposal was for four apart-
ments and two offices which would generate less traffic that way and felt that
there is no proposal for any garages which is a plus - it has to be looked at
somebody who knows what they are doing.
MR. KILTY felt that if you issue a deed to a man who can't build the thing, he
did not care that the court says, that the Council is not doing their duty.
COUNCILMAN HARRY PETERSON that his only interest in the retention of the Nelson
School is to see it in that same form - if any restoration is done it will be
cleaning of the outer building - was he to assume that there would be no change
in the structure of the windows or the doors, the balconies on the bilding as it
is now - can they be utilized for res'_dential purposes without being altered.
JEFF ZOLLER stated that they could be and the only alteration would be that the
south chimney would be built up higher and the little shed on the back end be
taken off, otherwise there would be no change - any thermo - paning of the windows
would be done on the inside - insulated shutters on the inside of the rooms.
MAYOR JUNKER asked Mr. Zoller if he had the financing for the $72,000 and replied
that he had discussed this with the bank - he has not signed any papers and he
has met with the people at the bank four times already.
MARY EMANUELSON questioned whether or not there would be garages and MR. ZOLLER
said that they will have parking on the west side of the property and she felt
that people paying this kind of rent would not be willing to go all winter without
parking thie cars in some kind of enclosure. MR. ZOLLER stated that there are
two reasons for not having the garages - one is financial, secondly it is not in
keeping with the style of building and they did have it in the original proposal
but it was taken out.
MRS. EMANUELSON felt that in the future someone could come in and ask for a variance.
DICK EMANUELSON stated that unless it states in the proposal that there would be
no variances and it could not be done and it would not be binding. Further he
stated that it would have to be in the proposal stating that this could not be-
come more units than the four originally proposed.
MR. KILTY stated that if the City issues a deed to him, he would have to forever
live up to the agreement and MAYOR JUNKER AND COUNCILWOMAN BODLOVICK agreed to that.
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April 9, 1979
MAYOR JUNKER asked Mr. Zoller if the City does not waive the bond requirement
then you are out of the picture and MR. ZOLLER replied "yes ".
BOB HAGSTROM stated that he has reviewed Jeff's proposal and appreciated the
work that he has done - he is not just coming in with just a letter and some
thoughts off the top - he has researched this - designed it - done this with
conscience to the Council - when he talks about being done in two years, he
is talking about interior - the exterior is coming under control in a short
time and he will be living there and there is a lot of things to keep it under
control. He has had the appraiser up there from the bank and evaluated it -
there are a lot of positive things going on there - he is qualified and will do
a good job - and if the Council is going to put it back and that he needs a
bond, he felt that there are enough people who have confidence in this whole
project that will see that bond can be reached. He stated he would not mind
living in this building or living next door to ti - it is one of the finest
pieces of craftsmanship in town and he is proud of it.
Questions were raised if he got the deed and then could not get bonded what
would happen and MAYOR JUNKER stated that the Council has to waive the 125% bond
and he would have to pay the City the $2,000 within 45 days and then he would
have to furnish the performance bond.
COUNCILMAN POWELL stated that prior to the meeting this evening that the City
Attorney stated that the Council did not have to rush into their decision and
MAYOR JUNIOR did not feel that they would want to continue on forever.
MAYOR JUNKER felt that when the proposals were presented this evening that they
were to have their financing ready in black and white.
Discussion was held as to when the Council would have to make a decision on
this matter and the motion passed at the February 6, 1979 meeting was read
by Councilman Harry Peterson at this time --
That the City Council of Stillwater will receive proposals for
feasible and prudent alternatives to the destruction of the property
known as the old Nelson Schocl, until 7:00 P. M., April 9, 1979.
Proposals shall include a statement by the proposer indicating the
proposed use of the building,the number of units, the ownership, the
source of financing, any zoning variances required, including variances
to the area requirements, recreational facilities requirements, parking
requirements, and floor area ratio requirements, proposed landscaping
plans, exterior alteration plans, interior alteration plans.
The proposer shall indicate his willingness to be bound by all
conditions in the enclosed Purchase Agreement and Development Agree-
ment, and the proposer shall indicate the proposed purchase price.
Proposals will be considered by the City Council at the next regular
meeting following receipt, and the proposer will be given an opportunity
to be heard by the Council if he desires.
The City Council reserves the right to reject all proposals.
He felt that the Council is bound by this to take action tomorrow night, the
next regular meeting.
Discussion was held regarding financing and MAYOR JUNKER felt that this should
be known by tomorrow.
MAYOR JUNKER felt that all of these proposals could be struck from the records
right now, at least three of them, and that we have waited for four months for
that.
Questions were raised about the passible variances that would be required in
Mr. Zoller's proposals and Mr. Zoller read from the proposal at this time.
COUNCILMAN H. PETERSON asked about the limited partnership on Mr. Zoller's
proposal and MR. ZOLLER responded that the financing would be through the First
National Bank of Stillwater and the other partners are Mr. & Mrs. William Zoller.
MAYOR JUNKER indicated that he did not doubt Jeff's integrity, but that the City
wants to do something with the Nelson School and so something that the neighbors
would be satisfied with - he felt that Jeff could do a good job, can't let it go
two years, four years.
MR. ZOLLER indicated that he would be living in the building within 90 days
after the closing and he will be living a bear -bone budget - he will be living
there for a couple of reasons - first to make it secure - and secondly he can
watch any building materials that he purchases and finally he can work on the
building as he is living there.
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April 9, 1979
DICK EMANUELSON did not believe that anyone craftsman or workman could do any
$35,000 of work in all of these different fields within two years or one year -
it would be very difficult - he is in the trade - he is an electrician and an
engineer - it just cannot be done with these variances and it is hard to believe.
MAYOR JUNKER asked if the present stairway would stay there and MR. ZOLLER
stated that they would - this would be a central unaltered hallway.
SHIRLEY TIBBETTS stated that she does not live right next to the school, but a
few blocks away, asked how the people felt when the school was in use as a
school and administration building - were they happy with it then - and most of
the people did buy their homes when the building was there. She felt that people
do not have any imagination.
MRS. SCHAFFER stated that if it was not good enough for a school or administration
building it is not good enough for a condominium.
MARY EMANUELSON stated that the School District let the building become run down
and at the present time they had one family move into the neighborhood and it is
a disaster - she thinks the proposal sounds great, but she is afraid of the time
limit and MRS. TIBBETTS stated that when it is restored it will be an asset to
the neighborhood.
(A discussion continued between the RTR members and the neighbors)
MRS. TIBBETTS stated that Stillwater is noted for its history and there is no
place like us because of the historic value and the people want to tear every-
thing down.
MARK CARROLL stated that someone who had looked at the building stated that
twenty years ago something could have been done, but that today it is too late
to do anything with it.
MARY EMANUELSON stated that when Austin Hilleran's proposal was made it was
for $23,500.00 and Kilty's was for $10,000 and basically Mr. Hunt sued the City
as a taxpayer and not any of these bids has come close to this $10,000 bid -
they are very sincere that they want to save the building and they were very
critical when the City went for Mr. Kilty's proposal originally, but nobody has
come close to that now and they all knew that the $10,000 was sitting there and
they would have had a better chance if they would have overbid him by $1,000.
JEFF ZOLLER stated that he would be honest, he would hate to say that he would
love to bid $12,000 for the site, but he honestly stated that he could not
afford to bid more than $2,000.
MRS. MARIE ZOLLER asked if the building is to be torn down, is the City going
to put a limit on the amount of time required to get it down - how long will
it take to down the school? (She made reference to the demolition time for the
building at the Junior High School).
MAYOR JUNKER felt that RTR made a mistake and that they did admit to the School
Board and they are out of line and that they will not be involved in the Nelson
School since it is because of RTR that it is not down and MR. HUNT stated that
he was the one that made this mistake.
MR. KILTY stated that there was nothing in the biu that required a time limit,
but at the hearing prior to the bids he stated that it would take six months.
MR. ZOLLER stated that if the neighbors wanted to look at his proposal, he would
be happy to show it to them. He stated that it took him from about two weeks
after the announcement of the proposals and until tonite to put his proposal
together. He could vertify the finan cing from the First National Bank.
ADJOURNMENT - On motion of Councilman Powell, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick,
the meeting adjourned at 8:20 P. M.
Attest: ,�4�.._■�.
J CiL Clerk
Mayor
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