HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-01-15 CC MIN•
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COUNCIL CHAMBER
Stillwater, Minnesota January 15, 1979 7:00 P. M.
SPECIAL MEETING
The meeting was called to order by President Junker.
Present: Councilwoman Bodlovick, Councilmen Mahoney, Peterson,
Powell and Mayor Junker
Absent: None
Also Present: City Finance Director /Coordinator, Kriesel; City Clerk, Schnell;
City Attorney, Magnuson; Director of Public Safety, Abrahamson;
Consulting Engineer, VanWormer; Mn. Dept. of Transportation,
Wikelius, Linzie, Gobeli
Press: Stillwater Gazette - Kevin Regan and Bob Liberty
Free Press - Mathes
Citizens: Brad MacDonald, Ed Frye, Ted Klatt, Allen Peterson, Lyle Anderson,
Elvira Conley, Owen Thomas, Bud Brine, Monty Brine, Bob McGarry,
Bob Thompson, Wil Turnblad, Babe Orff, Louise Smith, Robert Murray,
Dan Gfrerer, Kenneth E. Hall,
TRAFFIC SIGNAL HEARING
This was the day and t've set for the public hearing with the Downtown Retail
Council and City Council regarding the proposed signal and left -turn lanes for
Downtown Stillwater.
MR. KRIESEL introduced Mr. Glenn VanWormer and Mr. Mark Wikelius who presented the
proposal with a short background and history, origins and destinations; traffic
volumes ADT and turn movements; traffic volumes by hours, accident information and
other problems that currently exist in this area.
MR. KRIESEL made comments regarding the survey made by the Planning Commission in
which a great percentage of the people responding to this survey indicated that
the traff is problems in downtown Stillwater was a major problem, both for pedestrians
and vehicles. Number one concern was the traffic and the number two was the parking
problems.
MR. WIKELIUS indicated the parking losses block by block and what can be done about
obtaining additional parking to replace them in the downtown area.
MR. KRIESEL reported on the parking survey which was done over a five week period -
this survey was done during the hours of 9:00 to 10:00 A. M. and 2:00 to 3:00 P. M.
in the afternoon -- in the morning hours there were 150 parking spaces empty and in
the afternoon approximately 104 spaces. (There is a complete copy of the survey
in the Local Improvement No. 169 file).
COUNCILMAN HARRY PETERSON felt that some of these are not choice locations - like
between Second and Third by the Gazette Office that he would not park there if he
had business down at Simonet's; the River Lot and the Auditorium Lot and whether
or not people are going to look at thse as choise lots or parking sites available.
MR. ABRAHAMSON stated that the survey was done for the revenue problem and why
the revenues are staying down.
OWEN THOMAS felt that no one was taking care of the meters - there are many of
them that are not working or the meters are expired and nothing is being done
about it, especially some real estate agents. He uses the First National Bank
parking lot to go to the bank and the drug store.
ED FRYE complained about three or four cars that are parked all day long in
Union Alley and in most cases the meters are not working - it is very simple why
ncc revenue is going down - the meters do not work and they are not being enforced.
FM. ABRAHAMSON stated that the type of meters that we have in this town do not
operate properly when it is below zero - they jam up because of moving parts in
there - take a warm coin out of your pocket and it freezes in there. There are free
parking for the two weeks prior to the holidays and that they will be enforced and
he stated that nobody in this town has gotten more traffic tickets than the employees
of that one real estate company referred to by Mr. Thomas - these are not meter
tickdts but other ticket violations.
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MAYOR JUNKER stated that there will be a foot patrolman downtown starting
February 1st and they will be there to check on the meters.
MR. VAN WORMER reported at this time on some of the alternatives suggested at
other meetings - remove the part -time parking ban during the afternoon peak
times and they looked at that and how it could be implicated - you can't move
the lanes back and forth - you have to have the lanes in one place - there are
more than one peak times and the volume at Chestnut and Highway 95, it would
be difficult to have part -time removal and if you have one parker there that
will take away the effect of the entire lane.
Another alternative that was suggested is just leave the lanes the way
they are and put in signals - the basic reason for the proposal is to cut down
the lef-turn accidents and with these the signal is not going to provide for
those left -turn lanes. They have to remove the left -turn lanes from the thru
traffic in order t( reduce the rear -end possibility and also to better organize
the traffic. The lanes are the main purpose and the signals are put in to take
care of the traffic that is in there and not involved in getting it out of those
lanes.
At the Nelson Street intersection and the desire for a traffic signal at
that point and they have checked the possibility of installing a signal there -
they are not precluding putting in a signal there and with the two other signals
this one would fit into the system and there would have to be proper spacing
between all of these signals to make them work out. This is not a perfect inter-
section and they are proposing the tightening up of this intersection - they are
proposing to go ahead with the project that they have, providing for a future
signal at Nelson Street and then through a future program and if this area does
develop as planned they would then determine the type of signal that would be
put in.
There was talk about alternate routes and one of them mentioned that
instead of coming down 212 all the way into town - coming thru on Fourth Street,
down Third and into Second and they did some travel studies to see which way was
quicker and they found that it took about 3 to 34 minutes to come from Fourth
Street into downtown by way of the highway and between 4 and 44 minutes to come
down thru the residential area.
The proposal of the By -Pass was much discussed several years ago and it was
decided against for several reasons (1) it was very costly; (2) it did not
solve all of the problems as you ended up with a intersection very close to the
bridge which would be less than desirable and there would be more turning traffic
at this point - it was just not feasible.
MR. WIL TURNBLADH of the Tamarack Galleves was concerned about the knocking out
of the 19 parking spaces and if that is the only way out then that is something
that the City has to do. He felt that something could be done about the raising
of the bridge and that something should be done about this He felt that the City
could use more signs indicating where the parkings are located in the downtown
area for the visitors coming into town. He did not know why the "no parking"
during certain hours would not work in Stillwater as it works in all kinds of
other American cities.
COUNCILMAN POWELL felt that more signs should be installed for the parking lot
locations and he questioned if the Highway Department could install pedestrian
signs to protect them when they are in the crosswalks because of the recent
fatality at the intesection of Main and Chestnut, even though we have the signals
or whatever.
MAYOR JUNKER indicated that they did have a meeting with the Coast Guards last
week and the bridge will not be opened from 2:30 to 3:30 P. M. each day which
was requested by the Downtown Council - there will be a trial period from May 15th
to August 15th. The bridge will open every hour on the half from 12:30 P. M. on,
but nothing between 2:30 to 3:30 P. M. on weekdays.
BOB THOMPSON asked about the time limit to get across Main and Chestnut for the
pedestria especially for the older citizens and it was agreed by several Council
members that these lights are very confusing.
MONTY BRINE asked if there would be "no right turn" on red on Chestnut and Main
when cars are turning to go into Wisconsin and Mr. Wikelius explained the current
signals and the proposed changes in this respect.
COUNCILMAN POWELL stated that if a semi wishes to make a wide turn he will have to
go into the thru lane to avoid knocking off the signals on this corner and how
that will affect this corner and he was informed with the lane shifts there should
be a little more room to negotiate this turn - there is such a heavy turn movement
at this intersection that this was not considered - a pedestrian walking across
Main to the east cannot see the cars that are in the left turn lane with trucks
stopped in the thru lane and this is a very dangerous situation. Once a ban is put
up on a "red" turn, then it is in effect all of the time where there is a pedestrian
there in the middle of the night or whatever - it is hard to put up a part -time
restriction like that - some enforcement would help.
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January 15, 1979
LYLE ANDERSON, St. Croix Drug Co., knew that there was no easy solution to this
problem but he was opposed to losing the 19 parking stalls and the expense will
be borne by the business places on the west side of Main Street and this will
cost a lot of money. He asked if the Council had come up with any solutions to
the problems of parking - he stated that the Texaco Station is for sale and this
would be a possibility and another would be putting a second story on the parking
lot at Olive and Second Street. He felt that the State gets off easy and that
taxpayers would be burdened with the most of the cost.
COUNCILMAN POWELL appreciated their concern abut he felt that one of the ways
that we are going to get more parking is by having mom turnover of automobiles
that are using the parking if we have better servilance of our parking meters
and keep the people that park for a half a day and get a turnover- businessmen
and employees are parking all day and feed the meter knowing when the meterman
comes along.
COUNCILMAN ROGER PETERSON indicated that they did start to solve some of the problem
by staring the process to acquire the Erickson property which will generate 93
additional spots and those may not be in this area, but they may accommodate people
who are presently parking in an area that would be used then by people who would be
shopping at his store and he was not aware that the Texaco Station was for sale.
They have discussed the ramping of the Auditorium Parking Lot, but the Council did
not feel that there would be that many additional spots by ramping it.
COUNCILMAN HARRY PETERSON stated that if they do not solve the parking problem
the business is going to go to the Mall and it is up to the businessmen downtown
to help make the solution possible. - he did not see an offering from anyone in
downtown who has yellow markings around his business saying that "let's put meters
in" - he made mention of the "No Parking" on the north side of the Cosmopolitan
Bank and to the east of the bank there is "no parking" primarily because of the
drive -in banking traffic and this is for a limited time to get into this area.
It seemed reasonable to him that they study the peak times of that particular
corner and put meters in there to be capped during peak periods and the downtown
patrolman could cap them - it seemed to him that it was ridiculous that those should
be "no parking" areas 168 hours each week and probably the peak periods when they
are used are from 3:00 P. M. Friday afternoon through the banking hours on Friday
and thru noon on Saturday. He Celt that these could be made available for parking
on Saturday afternoons and then on Water Street between Myrtle and Chestnut you
have an entire yellow area as being indicated as "truck loading" or "loading zones"
and it seems unreasonable that all of that space should be tied up for all hours
of the business day. He felt that this space could be metered and just restricted
certain hours of the day. He made mention of the loading zones to the south of
Chestnut Street on Water Street which are used a limited amount of time and it is
ridiculous that there are loading zones behind some of these places and he felt all
of this should be metered and this would move the traffic along and encourage people
to shop at these stores and us their rear entrances. Have to find alternative
places reasonably close - people want to be close to the main intersection - we are
asking the people on the west side of the street to give up their parking spaces -
what about the people on the east side of the street - are they willing to give
up some space behind themselves to offset that loss - there are some of the 'no
parking" zones that could be metered for part of the day and possibly pick up six
to ten of the spaces that we are giving up. There is also the parking space by
the Annex for the loading and unloading of trucks and that we should not have to
give those up for 168 hours per month - just give them a loading zone for restricted
hours.
MONTY BRINE indicated that the Downtown Council is working on a plan for Water
Street to change it over into organized parking - not necessarily with meters
behind the stores but to move the meters on the other side (east side) and within
the next month they will probably have something to present to the Council.
MAYOR JUNRER stated that they are asking the employees to park in the River Lot
or the Auditorium Parking Lot and keep the meters on all of the streets open
bedause the CiLy is really going to start ticketing the violators - Union Alley,
Water Street - this will start the first of February.
COUNCILMAN POWELL asked Chief Abrahamson if thirty minute meters were put in on
Water Street and also put meters on the north side of Chesnut where the Lumber -
man's Exchange Building is and CHIEF ABRAHAMSON stated tha, he and Nile are doing
a study right now and one of them is to meter Water Street on the west side; how-
ever south of Chestnut there is a lot of private property down there and no
established curbline - Simonet's own out into the street and they have found places
within a half block of Main Street to put in ten more meters up to this point.
There is a taxi -cab meter at the Laundromat that is very rarely used and there are
other spaces.
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BOB MC GARRY, 243 South Main Street, stated that he found it difficult to give
up 19 parking spaces and that the main problem is with the Senior Citizens Center -
where are you going to pick them up as there is a special meter for them now.
He asked what is being done to get the pedestrians across Main Street at
Main and Olive - the only time that you can get across is when the traffic is
stopped and then you have to pick your way through the cars - is there a cross-
walk going to be painted with a yield to the pedestrians - there are a lot of
businesses down there and the foot traffic is going to be greater with all of
this - he was concerned with safety.
COUNCILWOMAN BODLOVICK felt that there has to be a cross -walk there as it is
dangerous.
MR. WIRELIUS stated that the radius is going to be moved and this should give
better visibility for the motorist and the pedestrians. As the area develops
it is possible that a signal is going to be necessary just because of the
pedestrians.
It is possible after this system is put in that there will be a need for
signals or a flashing light at this intersection, and also at Olive Street. It
will be two years before the new stop lights will be in and working.
MONTI BRINE felt that now is the time that we put in the flashing lights and
also slow down the traffic down out farther on Main Street - possibly by
Walker's if that can be done. It has taken twenty years to get this settled
and encouraged that something be done right now.
ED FRYE asked if there was an ordinance giv ing the pedestrian the right -of -way
and it was stated that this is State law, and he would like to see the 4:30 to
6:00 P. M. "no parking" tried before they go with the whole system.
COUNCILMAN POWELL felt that it is going to take more than four hours of policing
in downtown to take care of all of these problems, need at least four hours for the
meters and four hours for the pedestrians.
MR. MC GARRY asked that the City Council get a commitment from the Highway Depart-
ment of this matter before the Council acts on this proposal - can't see a cross-
walk in the winter time - in California you get a ticket when there is a sign
about crosswalks and a signal down there would be a part of it - if you get them
slowed down Nelson Street then they know that they are coming up to the other one.
MAYOR JUNKER asked what type of signing could be provided with the new system
and MR. WIKELIUS stated that to put in the crosswalk and a flasher would be
another $10,000 and the full set of signals at Main and Nelson would be another
$50,000. The funds for this project are for high safety factors and they have
no figures on the intersection of Main and Nelson. This would have to come
under another program and they would have to look into that.
MR. VAN WORMER stated that monies were available for Chestnut and Myrtle - the
monies that are allocated for this particular project are there for the accidents
that are occurring in this particular area - this is the high accident money -
the other monies were Federal Aid Funds which are available for Chestnut and Myrtle
and other streets in the City and are not available for Nelson Street as this
street is not on that system.
CHIEF ABRAHAMSON asked if the signals at Main and Chestnut could not be used for
Nelson and Main Street and adjust them to have more green on Main Street and MR.
WIKELIUS stated that this is not feasible.
MAYOR JUNKER asked about a four -way crosswalk on Main and Nelson and the reply
was that a 'pedestrian flasher' would help and MAYOR JUNKER asked about reducing
the speed limit in this area or £other out on the highway.
COUNCILMAN PETERSON felt that the traffic should be slowed down further out -
even if it was signed, some of them would see it and abide by it.
KEN HALL(Goggins Candies) asked about a yellow amber light where they do thirty
and then in the peak times when more traffic is going down there and more people
are down there - then you have a red flasher at that time.
MR. VAN WORMER stated that they have not made all of the studies on Nelson and
Main and one possibility might be to look at either a traffic signal or flasher
at Nelson Street and at least make the provisions for the traffic signal and to
get some time commitments when it may occur - try to get a commitment for an
overhead flasher - it will cost the City a large portion of the cost of that
flasher would be about $10,000 - some of that might be compatible with further
systems and the City might get a return on a portion of it.
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January 15, 1979
CHIEF ABRAHAMSON stated that he did a count on the people crossing down on
Nelson on Thursday and Friday for an hour and a half - 65 on Thursday and
125 on Friday - and the time was between 11:30 and 1:30 and it was a cold day.
MONTY BRINE stared that when all of this area is developed there is going to
be more cars coming out on Nelson Street trying to make a left -turn on Main
Street and again it is a stop light that we need here.
The Project is programed for a November letting and that is was too late at
this time to get the signals at Nelson and Main into this project with con-
struction during the next year.
LOUISE SMITH, Estelles, could not see why they had to have the left lane
going all that way up - let's slow the traffic down.
MAYOR JUNKER stated that we want to keep the traffic moving through and not
speed it up in that way, but just move it along faster.
CHIEF ABRAHAMSON indicated there are about 50 accidents on this intersection
which are not reported to the State - this new system is definitely a safety
factor for this intersection.
Questions were asked about the delay time involved and MR. WIKELIUS stated that
they have not done such a study on that.
COUNCILMAN PETERSON asked if this new system would be as safe for the pedestrians
as the motorist and the reply was that it definitely will as there is currently
nothing at Myrtle and Main.
MR. MC GARRY felt that this project should be postponed until some consideration
is given to the Nelson Street problem - it is good for Myrtle Street, but it
is going to get a lot worse on South Main - there has to be something put in the
proposal for this area.
MR. WIKELIUS stated they will look at this intersection during the coming week and
see what they can do - they had proposed the geometric changes to make it better -
now they will look at the flasher.
COUNCILMAN PETERSON felt that there must be some other funds available to cover the
cost of the flasher at this intersection.
COUNCILMAN POWELL asked about the possibilities of having a flasher there for a
pedestrian crossing that we would also have a red light there that if it was deter-
mined that the traffic should stop so that traffic going on Main would have a chance
to get on, so that an officer could activate that gor a half hour period or whatever
he felt was necessary.
MR. WIKELIUS stated that part -time signals are not very safe - you would have to
have indications for all of the motorists - this manual system would be out of
step with the other systems.
THE MAYOR DECLARED A RECESS FROM 8:45 to 8:55 P. M.
SOLID WASTE QUESTIONNAIRE
Discussion was held on the proposed questionnaire that is to be sent out with the
Sewer Billing regarding the Dump Box Service for the City of Stillwater, as pre-
sented by the City Finance Director /Coordinator.
On motion of Councilman Roger Peterson, seconded by Councilman,
Powell the Finance Officer was directed to send out the questionnaire
as presented with the corrections made. (all in favor)
(Eliminated the term of the contract for the Refuse Contract
and eliminated No. 5 on the question portion of the survey)
MEETING WITH THE DEPARTMENT HEADS
Mr. KRIESEL has set up the meeting starting at 6:30 P. M. to 9:00 P. M. on
Wednesday, January 17th and that included Mr. Niska and Mr. Fackler in addition
to the department heads and they will discuss the salaries that have been set for
these employees.
LOCAL NO. 91 CONTRACT
On motion of Councilman Harry Peterson, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick,
the Mayor and the City Clerk were authorized to sign the Union Contract for
Local No. 91. (all in favor)
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January 15, 1979
APPLICATIONS
On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilman Roger Peterson,
the Council granted a one -day Sunday Liquor License to the American Legion
Club, 103 South Third Street, for Sunday, January 21, 1978. (all in favor)
(fee for same is to be $5.00)
COPYING MACHINE
On motion of Councilman Powell, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick, the City
Attorney was instructed to send a letter to Copy Sales regarding the performance
of the Oce' Copy Machine after Mr. Kriesel contacts the salesman advising him
that we are looking for another machine and that in the letter that is to be
sent by the City Attotney that we will request 100% refund less any fair rental
charge for the months that it has been in service. (all in favor)
ADJOURNMENT
On motion of Councilman Roger Peterson, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick,
the meeting adjourned at 9:05 P. M.
Attest: w .-,-+- p ttfr ..e
City Clerk
AO Van h
Mayor
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