HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-12-18 DTPC MINPARKING COMMISSION MEETING
DECEMBER 18, 2008 MEETING MINUTES
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mike Rice, David Korte, Chief John Gannaway, CSO Dennis Pasket,
Bill Turnblad, Rob Gag, Curt Newcomb, Dave Junker
COPIES TO: All commission members.
THE EIETMP LACE Or MINNESOTA
DISCUSSION
RAMP UPDATE: Bill Turnblad has two updates on the parking ramp. The first is a packet of
pictures and other information regarding the ramp. The bids were received on December 16,
2008 and the council chose to award the contract to AP. They have done quite a few ramps in
this area so we were pretty happy to get them. They know what they're doing, they have a
confident crew, and they do their own work. The bids were very competitive. Usually if you get
a huge wild swing in the bids which usually means that they didn't understand the project and
that means the plans weren't up to snuff. It all came off very well. It came under engineer's
estimate even. We had estimated it was going to cost 5.5 million dollars before construction and
the bid was almost 5.2 million dollars so it came under, which is a good thing. Total project cost
will be under 6 million dollars for soft costs and we don't have the equipment in here, for
example, in this bid. So it'll be close to 5.7 million dollars when all is said and done but if we
would have left this thing until the summer time, I'm afraid we'd have been hurting to get a
project. We have a development meeting with lapd owners who are going to contribute land.
We had to put together some kind of package that Rivertown Commons would be somewhat
comfortable with because they have certain expectations. By the time you put everything in the
mix, the project is going to be essentially all the previews we have seen. We were able to keep
the four -sided brickwork. We were worried that we would loose that. The whole functionality is
there. It will continue to be two -way traffic throughout. You can enter on either 2 Street or 3rd
Street and there will be a bridge between the 3 Street side and the top of the ramp so that all
works well. We had hoped to have a little return on the fourth level and have a half level up and
this space would net about twelve more parking spaces, that little extension of the ramp was
going to cost us between $110,000 and $150,000 but it took away any potential reserve and you
don't want to have it down to the penny where if there are problems and we need to spend more
money so that had to be taken out. It will be constructed so that if, in the future, we need those
spaces we can add that little piece but it will never be as cheap as today. We're disappointed
that we lost that, but we thought that we might. What we have is everything that we had hoped
for. There will be a total of 283 spaces. We might be able to get a little more than that; fifteen
spaces out of the 283 are compact. We didn't want to go too much more than that. If you think
we need more spaces we can put in more compact spaces. You don't want to have the spaces too
small where people are struggling to park in them. The ramp has wider isles and the stalls are
wider. We're recommending the 283 spaces. If we need more spaces in the future we can
repaint sections to put in more compact spots. What's next is we hope to meet with the
contractor right after Christmas. AP is able to do winter construction where some firms are not
and it would cost more. We gave them an entire year to get the work done so they didn't have to
do winter work if they weren't good at it and it would cost more. We think we'll be able to get
the project done sooner because of who we hired. Bill Turnblad will bring the schedule back to
the next meeting. We now have bids; we suspect we know how much this project is going to
cost us so we need to start working on the operation plan. Larry is still working the numbers.
He knows what the soft costs are, what the construction costs are, and what we have for funds.
He's going to give Bill Turnblad a number by the next time so we know what we can spend on
the consultant to help us put together this operation plan. So at the next meeting, Bill Turnblad
will bring back to the commission some kind of proposal and put together a RFP draft. Chief
Gannaway asked who the consultants were that came in last time. Bill Turnblad advised that
they were a group from Carl Walker, the Operations Expert. Rob Gag asked if they were under
contract already or was that just for the bid. Bill Turnblad advised that there is a dispute on that.
Larry is pushing hardcore. He says he's been good to us, just give it to us but I think that the
way the contract was written that was an additional cost. So, between now and the next time we
meet; Bill Turnblad will have more information for the commission. Perhaps we could stay with
Carl Walker. They would give us probably the best operations plan, but the proposal they gave
us was kind of the "Cadillac They wanted to change all of the downtown parking. From their
point of view what they are trying to do is encourage people to use the ramp which means we
have to get rid of free spots or no one would use the ramp. We have some luxury in this project.
Most ramps are paying for capital and operating. In this case, we don't have to worry about
capital; that's paid for. It's just operating budget so we're able to be a little less expensive on
parking fees, which is a good thing because if you get too expensive downtown, only visitors
will use it and only when it's extremely busy so that's something they have to take a look at, or
somebody will. Bill Turnblad will be bringing more information next time and then we'll be
'able to start working on that operation plan. Our goal is to have it done at least a month before
end of construction so that we have time to put in`there whatever equipment we need on the ramp
itself. The bid package does not include parking That was an alternate. We took
that out because we thought it was a little premature to just suppose we wanted things and all the
equipment that they suggested. It might depend upon what our operation plan is. So, probably
by the end of the summer we will need to have a good idea what our operation plan is. We
expect to be able to et this open in the fall if they do winter construction. The question was
brought up if the drawing rendering to scale and the facade; was accurate. Bill Turnblad advised
that yes, it is. Bill Turnblad does not have a color copy of the exact construction plans nor does
he have a copy of the actual building permit plan, but the pictures we have are very close to it.
The drawings behind that one are all construction drawings. The building permit itself has been
submitted. We're working on it. Since it's a city project, the state is reviewing it. Mike Rice
has a couple questions about the ramp. They are: these spaces we're paying for (which isn't a
big deal) but we're concerned about the use of the ramp (which we've talked about a couple of
times) and getting people to use it. A lot of people that park downtown park in the three -hour
parking places which is an ongoing issue with employees of downtown businesses and they park
their all day. Rob Gag asked if they can be ticketed for doing that. CSO Pasket advised that they
park there and they'll move their car. Unless you see them move their car, you can't say that
they didn't move it the mandatory 200 feet. It's a lot better than it used to be but it's still an
issue. This is going to be a big marketing issue; how are we going to get the merchants to spread
the word that there is a ramp here and it's available for their employees also. Parking has been
discussed for over twenty years; either there isn't any (the perception) or when are you going to
build ramps. Will the ramp be used by employees of downtown businesses in the winter
months? It would be nice if the downtown business employees would park in the ramps and
leave the parking in front of the businesses for customers. We should really work on the
downtown merchants to have their employees park in the parking ramp. Chief Gannaway
advised that either he or someone else go to the Chamber and the downtown business owners and
let them know about the ramp. We need to make sure that the three -hour parking spaces are used
for what they are intended for. The owner of the old Ben Franklin building wants to add
additional apartments in his building and is asking for a further variance to the requirement for
parking spaces for his renters. Bill Turnblad advised that when people ask for variances, the
condition of approval is, is that the business or building owner has to buy monthly permits for
each of those spaces that they're asking a variance for. People who have permits for on- street
parking should be parking in the ramp, it may not be convenient but it comes with where they
choose to live. Chief Gannaway asked where the construction stuff going to go. Construction
stuff is going to be staged in two places: we're not going to use any parking lots downtown, it's
going to be staged on the 3 Street parking lot (across the street from the post office). The steel
will be staged there and swung to the project, and up at our old maintenance facility. Chief
Gannaway advised Bill Turnblad to make sure they do not block the garage doors at the old
maintenance facility. Bill Turnblad advised that that's what the operations plan is all about; how
do we want to price what's in the ramp and how do we encourage that. Mike Rice advised that
the price to parkin the ramp needs to be obtainable for them. Mike Rice's other question is that
the parking equipment hasn't been included. The rough -in for electrical and whatever is
necessary is sufficient for future additions. Bill Turnblad advised that everything will be wired
with the contract. The only thing he doesn't know about for sure is the video cameras. He
knows that all the actually ticket equipment is all wired for. The conduit will all be in place, it
just takes somebody to install it. Chief Gannaway advised that one vender he spoke to yesterday
said that they can put in all wireless cameras. We'll have to get the cameras rolling. Bill
Turnblad advised that we should decide upon the and vender soon enough so that if we need
to do any conduit that it'll get done. Chief Gannaway would just as soon use the same vender for
the downtown cameras as for the ramp so that it' 11 be the same system. Mike Rice asked if they
have access to the set of plans so that they can make sure that everything is correct. There will
also be a "panic button" for those who need to talk to a person from the gate. There should be an
attendant on duty for special events. We also thought that it might be a good idea to have an
attendant on duty for the first couple of months of operation. Curt Newcomb asked if the ramp
system will take credit cards. Bill Turnblad advised, yes. It'll take credit cards, debit cards, and
cash. There will be a pay station in the lobby and one on each level and you can also pay at the
gate too. There will be a booth also as an option. The place and conduit for it will be part of the
construction contract. We won't put it in until we buy equipment though. It's nice to have two
ways of getting in and out. You can load and empty the ramp from both 2 and 3rd Street before
and after an event. Curt Newcomb advised that he thinks the problems are going to be typical;
the non cooperation of the downtown merchants. Visitors will be fine with what the signs say.
Bill Turnblad showed the commission a sample of what the facade for the ramp will look like.
It's concrete made to look like brick. It's still hand laid but it wears better and is cheaper.
INTERIM PARKING: The other item Bill Turnblad has is interim parking update. A lease
handout was given to all members. We were hoping to be able to lease some spaces from what
used to be the Washington Federal building. They have finally come through. They are asking
more than we can afford. They wanted to have $33.00 per space per month. We just couldn't
afford that so what we are looking at now is $20.00 per month per space plus we would remove
their snow piles for them essentially. It ends up saving them money because we've got guys
downtown taking out snow piles anyways. It doesn't take much to take the snow piles for them.
It costs us less and it costs them a lot less and they're able to keep four spaces available then
more often because they end up being snow storage so they figured the difference in cost
between $20.00 and $33.00 was enough for them to be comfortable with it. The question Bill
Turnblad has for the commission is, is that he has to bring the lease to the city council but he
wants the commission's comments on it. What he's proposing is out of parking funds we would
cover $10.00 per month (the cost of a permit). The other $10.00 per month Bill Turnblad will
most likely find in his own department budget someplace. It'll be a total of $600.00 from
parking funds and about $600.00 out of my budget. The question was asked what these spaces
are for. Bill Turnblad advised that these six spaces that would be in the parking ramp area
specifically for the Lowell Inn and will be signed for the Lowell Inn. That became critical until
the ramp is completed because we're taking all forty -five spaces out of the Lowell Inn's parking
lot so as part of the development agreement, we needed to find them a certain number of
replacement spaces kind of within walking distance of their existing parking lot. Rob Gag
advised those spots are never used. Bill Turnblad agreed and that's why they're okay with it.
They would even let us have more, but like everybody they're hoping the economy will turn
around some day and then they didn't want to have all their spots leased; in case the little
restaurant were to ever take off again and become popular. Chief Gannaway asked who is going
to sign the lots. Bill Turnblad advised that the city will. The posts are already in place so all it
takes is putting the sign on the post. Bill Turnblad has already talked to our sign folks out at the
shop and with Shawn and they're okay doing it. It would be a simple sign, "Reserved for Lowell
s Inn The difficulty with that is, is it's not going to be permit parking so how do you know it's
going to be a Lowell Inn or not. Chief Gannaway advised that the Lowell Inn will have to
come up with some way of doing it themselves, put a little placard or something in their cars.
That would be up to the owner of the Lowell Inn. The spaces in front of the Rivertown
Commons we are going to say by permit only and it will name a color and they would have to
keep it on their dash` all the time and if it's not on the dash then CSO Pasket can deal with it.
Chief Gannaway advised that we are not going to be able to enforce this. CSO Pasket agreed
advising that people are going to say, oh I have a permit but I forgot to put it in the window.
Then you have a ticket that you have to void. Chief Gannaway advised that we are not going to
enforce the Chestnut Building as it's private property. If the commission is comfortable with
this lease, then Bill Turnblad will bring it to the council and say we'll sign them for the Lowell
Inn and then let it run on it's own for the next ten months. Curt Newcomb moved to approve
this. Mike Rice seconded it. All parking commission members were in favor so lease was
approved by parking commission. The question was asked if the lease starts on January 5` Bill
Turnblad advised that yes, it does. Is that when construction starts? Bill Turnblad advised we're
going to start plowing the snow at that point, even if we don't have the site as a staging area. I
think it's just a good guy kind of a gesture to start plowing the snow in January. We won't
actually put signs up until we move into the Lowell Inn parking lot. I don't expect that to happen
until late January. Bill Turnblad is not sure how quickly AP will want to mobilize. We won't
know until after Christmas and because he won't know until after Christmas he's guessing it
won't be until late January that we have to use their lot. It's a good time of the year to start that
project because there isn't much demand for parking at the Lowell Inn or anywhere else down
there. CSO Pasket advised that regarding the spots at 2 Street and Olive Street that it needs to
be made perfectly clear to him (the business owner) that in getting the 24 spots so that his people
when they come that if they do not park in the spots signed for the Lowell Inn they're going to
get a ticket and then he's going to be complaining. The owner of the Lowell Inn needs to make
it perfectly clear to his customers where they can park to prevent them from getting tickets. This
may be an issue. Chief Gannaway advised that he and CSO Pasket will have to go down and
have a meeting with the owner of the Lowell Inn before this starts. It'll be up to the owner of the
Lowell Inn to explain it to his guests so that they understand, maybe give them a map of where
they are allowed to park when they check in. Mike Rice advised that it says by valet parking
only, is he having valet parking? Bill Turnblad advised that that is what the owner is suggesting
then they would have less chance of parking in the wrong spots. Maybe what he'll decide is it's
better for his room guests to park there and then if they're parking their own cars who knows
where they'll end up but it'll be his responsibility to advise his guests where they should park if
they're parking there themselves. Bill Turnblad might wait until he knows for sure when we are
going to take over that lot, which won't happen until around the first week in January.
CAMERA UPDATE: Chief Gannaway advised that the latest vender gave a very high bid for
downtown. The bid was $170,000.00 to do the whole downtown. Chief Gannaway believes the
bid came in high on purpose and then the vender gave a second bid of $110,000 so we're going
back to our other two venders to give us bids. These cameras do pick up motion. The question
was asked if the other two have wireless options. Chief Gannaway advised that all of them are
wireless. The last vender that Chief Gannaway talked to said that the server that will be put in
the police department will work for the ramp also so we won't have to get an additional server.
Basically it will be just putting up the cameras as there won't be any additional network stuff; a
good portion of the network stuff will already be in. We need to figure out how many cameras
we need for the ramp. There may be a need to hAve a transmitter (also known as a mesh
vender's term). A mesh is like a wave point so there may be one on the bridge, on the Armory,
and something on the ramp. Chief Gannaway advised that the status of the cameras is that we
need to get two more quotes and we'll see what the come in at. Curt Newcomb asked what the
target number for th6 cost was. Chief Gannaway advised that $110,000 is a little high. For eight
cameras and building in the network the very first quote we got was $57,000. The second quote
was $75,000 so it's probably going to be around $100,000 (a guess) for all of downtown, which
would be between sixteen and twenty cameras. Mike Rice asked if this cost included the ramp.
Chief Gannaway advised, not including the ramp. The ramp is going to take quite a few
cameras -there needs to be cameras in the stairwells and blind spots. Chief Gannaway is guessing
for the ramp itself it'll probably be the same amount of cameras or pretty close. Curt Newcomb
asked if the purpose of the cameras is safety. Chief Gannaway advised, yes, and for evidence
documentation and other stuff.
STILLWATER MARATHON: There are issues with the marathon, but Chief Gannaway didn't
see the downtown part as becoming such an issue. In the handout (number seven parking
control) this stemmed from the downtown merchants issues with the marathon. They wanted to
close all city parking lots south of Myrtle pursuant to a schedule established by the Stillwater
Downtown Parking Commission and consultation with St. Croix Events and the Chamber of
Commerce. At the council meeting, they suggested not just south of Myrtle, but north of Myrtle.
The purpose behind this was to keep the lots open for downtown business, but we are also going
to have to reserve some of them for how many people Mr. Eckberg is going to need for the start
and end of the marathon. Dave Korte asked if at the last meeting we discussed closing them off
until the race starts and then opening them up or maybe staggered openings. Some of them will
have to stay closed, just like with Lumberjack Days. The marathon is capped at 5,700 runners.
Hopefully they'll all park at the Government Center, Anderson Windows, the high school and
the junior high and bus in. We're also looking at support staff and families. Stillwater will be
busy that day. Curt Newcomb asked, if we're going to close these lots wouldn't they want them
open for their customers. The lots will be reserved, which would be a better way of putting it
instead of closing the lots. Rob Gag advised that we need to figure out a lot or two that they can
park in (they being normal people that want to come downtown or workers). Chief Gannaway
advised that he would have to sign them, local traffic only, or something along those lines. Curt
Newcomb advised that he thinks that some of the people would be at the start because they have
a friend or relative in the race and then they'd walk over and have breakfast. Someone advised
that they are more focused on getting the runners up at the Government Center to be bussed
down that there might a lot of activity early. Chief Gannaway advised that maybe at the next
meeting we should have Dave Eckberg and Jen Severson (from the Chamber) here and work a
parking plan downtown. Keep in mind that this is a Sunday morning, Memorial Day, and the
race starts at 7:00 so normal business will be minimal to none other than Starbucks. Most of the
businesses don't even open until 11:00. There will be a number of people driving here that
morning or that live here that want to see the start of the race that will have to park somewhere
and then after that, like you said, after that they're going to look for a place to have coffee or
breakfast and hang around. There are some that have someone in the race and they follow them;
Ihey'11 be at the start to cheer them on and then drive ahead and wait for them at a certain place
and do that several times throughout the route. The coffee shops and gas stations will be packed
with people all day long; they're going to see great business. Dave Korte asked if the race was
going to start and end downtown. Yes. Two of the four races will end downtown. A couple of
the races end at Pioneer Park. There is a lot of interest in the marathon as it's a unique course, a
difficult course. The council (Rob Gag) looked at the agreement the City of Duluth has. The
City of Duluth is just happy to have the marathon in Duluth and it was a pretty good agreement;
all the security expenses were paid by the promoter. It was very fair to the city. It's just going to
be important to get the residents to understand where the course is going so they're not alarmed
which is going to be the next hurdle. This marathon will be great for everybody downtown if
they can embrace it. Has the council picked up negatives from the citizens or has it just been the
merchants. Rob Gag advised that he can only speak for himself, he advised that he's only gotten
negatives from merchants. But he has gotten some positive from merchants too. There weren't
very many negative merchants either. Rob Gag advised that he is a little bit concerned about the
start of the race. People will want to see the start of the race, get their picture taken, etc. and it's
not the runners, it's the people watching them. Chief Gannaway advised it'll be a cluster. Curt
Newcomb advised that a lot of people may be a couple of blocks away from the actual starting
line because it's such a mass at the starting line so they go two or three blocks it starts to spread
out a little bit and then they can actually see their runner. Chief Gannaway advised that when
they start, they're going to start by the Andiamo building. The positive for Stillwater is it's not
the runners so it's the car not just sitting there all through the course it's people moving and
consuming. We might have to have more lots open than we were thinking. It's a tremendous
opportunity for the City of Stillwater. Hopefully it'll all be done by 1:00. Chief Gannaway
advised that there will not be any food venders. There may be a pancake breakfast afterwards.
That means that there will be more people needing parking adjacent to whatever they're having.
This won't be like Lumberjack Days where there's like 300 venders down there.
VETERANS MEMORIAL: Rob Gag asked Curt Newcomb if he has to work with police to get
Pine Street blocked off for Memorial Day. There were too many loud cars there last year.
Because of the loud cars, the speakers were hard to hear.
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE: Chief Gannaway was discussing with Dave Korte information on
traffic committees. For example; when someone complains about speeding in their
neighborhood, extra patrol is done in the area. With a committee you actually study the problem,
you put out speed counters so you can actually tell when someone is legitimately speeding and
it's based on these little things placed in the road and people drive over them and if it meets a
certain criteria then you determine how bad the problem is and you either do A) enforcement, B)
education, or a combination. The most effective thing they do is speed bumps. If this is that
strong of an issue, one thing you might think about is speed bumps (not like at the mall). It's
designed for people going over 30 miles an hour. They will be able to feel it if you're going 30
miles per hour or faster, but if you're going 20 miles per hour it's just a slow, gradual rise. There
are also traffic circles kind of like Deerpath. Maybe some of the commission would be
interested in forming a committee regarding traffic issues. Chief Gannaway does not want these
issues to be part of the parking commission. The committee would basically be made up of
people like Chief Gannaway, the city engineer, and a couple of people in the community and you
form an actual committee where people can fill out complaints on -line, they can call in
complaints and then they go to the committee that would meet maybe once a month or quarter
and the issue is studied and the level of correction is determined. This makes sense as you know
what issues you're dealing with and you're not jtist reacting, you're responding.
AGENDA:
Parking ramp update
Levee project update
Camera update
Stillwater Marathon update