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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-02-18 PRC Packet CITY HALL: 216 NORTH FOURTH STILLWATER, MINNESOTA 55082 PHONE: 612-439-6121 AGENDA: .m. February 18, 1997 MEETING NOTICE STILLWATER PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD ,~vil~(lt~r --- .::::::: THE B I R T H P lAC E 0 F ~" MINNESOTA J J . 7. 6. 5. 4. 3. . 2. 1. . . New development update Mr. Cummings said, at this time, the sports complex is the biggest new development. Mr. Cummings noted that in addition to the new sports complex, the Soccer Association is looking for a 40 acre site for development, the Aiple property will be reverting back to the city in the near future, a plan is being developed for the McKusick/Neal Avenue area. He said he felt that now is the time for the city to develop an overall comprehensive park plan and a funding mechanism to implement such a plan. Mr. Thomsen provided members with an inventory of park equipment and facilities. Mr. Junker asked members to review the material for discussion at the February meeting. Mr. Thomsen said snow removal and flooding of the ice rinks currently occupy most of the staff time. He reported that all of the city's 9 rinks are in fair shape. In was not possible to do anything with a skating area on Lily Lake this year due to the weather conditions. Update from Tim Thomsen Mr. Junker explained this would be an on-going agenda item to provide members with an update on the day-to-day operations of the department. . Mr. Liehr, seconded by Mr. Peterson, moved approval of the minutes of Dec. 16, 1996; all in favor. Mr. Junker called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. Mr. Junker introduced and welcomed new members, Linda Amrein and Leah Peterson. Steve Wolff Absent: Tim Thomsen, Parks Director Others: David Junker, chairperson Linda Amrein, Nancy Brown, Rich Cummings, AI Liehr, Rob McGarry, Ken Meister, Del Peterson, Leah Peterson, and Mike Polehna Present: PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD Jan. 27, 1997 . Mr. Thomsen also reported that the city's grant application for reconstruction of the Pioneer Park wall and fence was not successful. Ms. Amrein asked about the status of the Pioneer Park plan. Mr. Thomsen . explained the original donation for improvements to Pioneer Park was for Mr. Thomsen reported that School District 834 is requesting the use of Lily Lake and Northland tennis courts from June 16 through July 31 for tennis lessons. Members had no objection to allowing the use. New business Mr. Junker reported that Feb. 17 is the suggested date for a joint meeting of the Planning Commission and Park and Rec Board to obtain public comment on the water surface use of Long Lake. Mr. Peterson suggested having someone from the DNR at the meeting. Mr. Junker's comments raised the issue of management of the sports complex. Mr. Polehna handed out the city of Chaska's job description for its director of parks and recreation and a copy of Chaska's organizational . structure. He noted that a reorganization of the city's public works department is upcoming and suggested that might provide an opportunity to look at the management structure of the parks department as well. He suggested holding a workshop with the City Council to discuss how the city wants to manage the sports facility and to look at the "big picture" for the future of the city's parks/planning/management. Mr. Junker said a key will be to maximize the usage of the field house and market the facilities for diverse activities. Mr. McGarry asked how the proposed changes in the facility will affect those who have already made a financial commitment and how the changes will impact the city's contribution. Mr. Polehna said one potential financial problem is debt service, since the contributions received are not up-front donations but rather are spread out over a number of years. He also pointed out that increasing the size of the dome is primarily responsible for increasing the cost of the project from what was initially estimated. . Mr. Polehna showed members elevations and schematics of the sports complex. He noted several changes are being proposed -- an increase in seating capacity for the ice arena and an increase in the size of the dome facility. He said there is a potential problem with parking if the site also has to accommodate the city's public works facility and armory/community center. . Respectfully submitted, Sharon Baker Recording Secretary Mr. Liehr, seconded by Mr. Peterson, moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:35 p.m. Mr. Liehr, seconded by Mr. Cummings, nominated Mr. Peterson as vice chairperson; all in favor. Election of Chairperson and Vice Chairperson for 1997 Mr. McGarry, seconded by Mr. Liehr, nominated Mr. Junker as chairperson; all in favor. Mr. Junker reported that he had talked with Richard Anderson regarding the problem with the roof leaking at Lily Lake Ice Arena, as well as the . graffiti in the restrooms. Mr. Anderson is checking on alternatives to having the roof repaired. Mr. Junker reported that he had discussions with Mr. McKnight regarding the problem of locking the gate at Sunrise Park. Mr. McKnight has indicated the problem definitely will be resolved. Mr. Polehna, seconded by Mr. Peterson, moved to request a workshop with the City Council to discuss the issue; all in favor Old business Mr. Peterson raised the issue of having staff from the planning department in attendance at meetings as previously requested. Mr. Junker said he had discussed the matter with City Administrator Nile Kriesel on several occasions. Mr. Kriesel has indicated that Mr. Cummings' membership on the board and Mr. Thomsen's attendance at meetings is sufficient. Mr. Polehna suggested the issue is a case in point for creating a new Park Director position. . playground equipment. The playground equipment will be moved to the location of the current parking area. However, that can't be done until the wall is repaired at a cost of about $1 85,000. . Don Peterson, 7130 Mid Oaks, said when he purchased his property in 1974, he was told no motors were allowed on the lake. He said large boats on the lake erode the shoreline and intensify problems already existing Lee Miller, representing the Long Lake Homeowners Association, gave a presentation describing the physical characteristics of the lake. He also provided a map indicating the possible number of watercraft that might use the lake once development occurs in the phase 1 annexation area. The boat density could be as high as one per 1.5 acre or less, according to the Homeowners Associations calculations; the rule of thumb is 1 boat per 15/20 acres for waterskiing, 1 per 10 acres during peak use on the St. Croix River, he said. Miller also spoke briefly about a problem that is occurring with snowmobilers using the lake as a cut-through from the DNR property north of the lake. Mr. Russell gave some brief introductory comments. Ms. Buss, Bonestroo . and Associates, talked briefly about the AAUR environmental assessment and mitigation study which is currently in progress. Planning Commission Chairperson Jerry Fontaine opened the meeting for presentations and comments. Park and Rec Board Chairperson David Junker opened the meeting at 7: 10 p.m. He explained that the purpose of the meeting was to receive comments only. Others: Council Member Gene Bealka; Community Development Director Steve Russell; Sherri Buss, Bonestroo, Rosene and Anderlik. See attached list; note there were others in attendance who did not sign in. Planning Commission members present: Jerry Fontaine, chairperson; Kirk Roetman, John Rheinberger, Don Valsvik, Darwin Wald, Tom Wiedner and Terry Zoller Park and Recreation Board members present: David Junker, chairperson; Linda Amrein, Nancy Brown, Rich Cummings, AI Liehr, Ken Meister, Del Peterson, Leah Peterson, Mike Polehna, and Steve Wolff Public Meeting Long Lake Surface Water Use Feb. 17, 1997 . Ned Gordon, 2970 Marine Circle, said he had watched his shoreline disappear over the weekend due to erosion caused by jet skis and big power boats. He also suggested there is a discrepancy in policy between the current use on Long Lake and Lily Lake, where no motorized craft are . Later, Ms. Wahlen reiterated that the lake is not conducive to high powered motors, but said small motors won't bother wildlife. She also questioned the data regarding erosion. Susan Wahlen, 1180 Nightingale, said she was never told that motors were not allowed. She suggested the city has no right to take away the opportunity to use pontoons and boats with small motors and said she didn't think such use would cause any damage. She said the lake isn't big enough for big boats; people who try to use the big boats will probably wreck their motors, she said. He further noted by statute, the city can regulate the size of motors, speed limits and hours of operation. There could be any combination of such regulations, which are all spelled out by state statute. Later, Mr. Peterson noted that by law all abutting property owners, which includes the city of Stillwater, have a right to use the entire surface of the lake. He said the city needs to figure out a way for all residents to share in the resource, and he said self-regulation won't work. He said he has seen kids of jet skis chasing geese and "buzzing" docks. He suggested a solution might be to allow small motors and/or electric motors. . Dick Peterson, 7160 Mid Oaks, said he, too, was told motors were not allowed. He said he thought the no-motor policy was part of covenants drafted for the Jackson Farm, but the covenants never got recorded. Mr. Zoller asked who told homeowners that no motors were allowed on the lake. Carolyn Lauermann, 650 Nightingale, said they were told by Orrin Thompson people. When boats started appearing on the lake, she said she contacted Stillwater Township but never received a response back. . due to high water levels. He said smaller boats and catamarans don't create a problem; large boats with large motors are a big problem. AI Hager, 716 Nightingale, also said he was of the understanding when he bought his home that no motorized traffic was allowed on the lake. He said while snowmobiles on the lake are no problem, per se, there is a problem with speed. Jon Engelking, 1220 Nightingale, said the concern with the water quality of Long Lake has nothing to do with boats, it has to do with the runoff from Cub/Target. He said the churning of the water caused by motors can . Rudy Lauermann, 650 Nightingale, asked whether there would be park land dedication on the western side of the lake. Mr. Fontaine responded that initial plans call for a walkway on the western side that would connect up with other trails in the annexation area. Les Hartmann, 2907 Marine Circle, said walkways, if developed, should be of natural materials and not paved. Lori Mildon, 3034 Marine Circle, said the lake can't handle the number of boats that might come with the new development and said large boats on the lake is a safety issue. Kerry Mildon said they previously had a jet boat on the lake and observed the wake it created; he also spoke of the pollution caused by leaking gasoline. . Nedra Meyer, 2929 Marine Circle, suggested allowing motorized craft will disrupt the wildlife and breeding habitats. Laurie Maher, 3018 Marine Circle, provided pictures of wildlife she has observed on the lake. She said she, too, was told power boats were not allowed on the lake when she purchased her home. She also expressed a concern that homeowners in the new developments will clear cut their lots for views of the lake. She urged the city to look at the city of Woodbury's ordinance which requires 1 SO feet of shoreline dedication and allows only electric motors. Dave Ruch, 1124 Nightingale, spoke of the differences of opinion regarding use and even the desired water levels on the lake. He suggested that a high concentration of power boats would not be desirable, but called for "compromise" below that level of use. John McCarthy, 2913 Marine Circle, said water quality of the lake is bound to go down with the use of motors. He also noted the DNR won't allow the water level control gate to be opened if the water quality is not improved. . allowed. If the decision is to allow boating, the lake is safe for only the smallest of craft, he said. Mr. Gordon also spoke of the problem of motorized boats stirring up sediments in the lake that eventually will get to Brown's Creek. . Meeting adjourned at 9 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon Baker Recording Secretary Mr. Fontaine closed the meeting to public comment at 9 p.m. Mr. Junker thanked those in attendance for their comments. He stated the two boards (Park and Rec and Planning Commission) would use the comments to "make the best recommendation we can to the City Council." Written comments, attached, were received from Richard Huelsmann, 12610 62nd St. N., and Ted and Jennifer Harms, 2904 Marine Circle. . Marc Putnam, Charles Cudd Co. developers of the Newman property, said the developers are concerned about the outcome of the water surface use issue. However, he said, the first marketing concern is for the protection of the resource -- the land. Regarding water usage, he said it would "obviously" be better for developers to be able to offer dockage and the use of craft such as canoes and catamarans. Rick Meyer, 2929 Marine Circle, reiterated the concern about the coexistence of wildlife and big boats. He also expressed a concern that the DNR might decide to shut the Long Lake outlet if the water quality doesn't improve. If the outlet can't be opened, he said he (and others) would be in "big trouble" due to flooding. Mike Putnam, 1166 Nightingale, said the shallower the lake level, the more concern there is regarding water quality -- the lower lake level makes the problems worse. Mr. Engelking stated the erosion of the shoreline is more due to wind and high water levels than it is due to boats. He reiterated that the biggest problem with the water quality of Long Lake is due to runoff from Cub/Target and other parts of the watershed and called for some kind of watershed management planning. . actually improve water quality. He also said the physical characteristics of the lake will, themselves, restrict use. He said the lake is for everyone's enjoyment, not just conservationists but recreationists, as well. Later in the discussion he said if the decision is made to regulate use, a speed limit of 25 mph might be acceptable. Ned and Eileen Gordon Allan Hager Rocky Hyberger Lee and Helen Miller Rudy and Carolyn Lauermann Laurie Maher Darryl Bixby Sandra Fabio Paula and Robert Kroening Dick Peterson Nedra and Rich Meyer Mary Anne Tucker Don Peterson Mike and Diane Putnam Jim and 110 Staloch Dave Ruch Ted Wright Lori and Kerry Mildon Les Hartmann Susan Whalen Rosemary McKenzie Karla Hyberger Jon Engelking Others in attendance at the Long Lake public meeting of 2/1 7/97 . . . "7~"L c4-fte/Ul MA-Ju- ~/L-l.;l/L,~ l-E' c.1 ~ -S e ~ v'- ,-'"~ r- t-\Ck. v- ~3 -- S .\- ~ (\ L0 a---\--e v { yV\ f,J (:)00 g 2-. We would suggest that the best use of Long Lake be a nature oriented lake with non- motorized canoes and watercraft. We have made a few calls to the city of Stillwater over the course of the last 5 years in regards to monitoring the speed and size of the watercraft used and received differing opinions on whose jurisdiction Long Lake was part of, the City or the County. Over the past several years we have seen a wide range of motorized boats including 16' aluminum boats with 10hp motors all the way to boats that are much larger with 75hp motors. Jet skis and pontoon boats are also a frequent sight on Long Lake. We have seen some close calls involving canoes and motorized boats. This will only increase as the development around the lake continues. We feel it is more suitable to being a nature oriented lake as opposed to what it has become. We live on Marine Circle adjacent to the Park land that fronts Long Lake. We have lived here since 1990 and have seen many changes in the usage of Long Lake. When we first moved here the lake was primarily used by people with canoes enjoying the natural setting. Dear Council, Feb. 17, 1997 Stillwater City Council Re: Long Lake Surface Use . . . I would expect that the comments at the subject hearing will range from the extremes of (1) absolutely no motor powered craft of any kind to (2) unlimited, uncontrolled use. The "no motors" extreme unduly penalizes those who acquired their Lakeshore property under conditions and with expectations different from those associated with high density development. With the planned high density development of the western lake shore, the The "surface water use" of Long Lake is just one of many problems associated with development in the area -- development that is different from the long-time "rural" character of the area. The proposed high density development on the western shores of Long Lake creates all kinds of issues that must be carefully identified, evaluated and then dealt with in a manner that does not unduly benefit nor penalize those Long Lake residents who acquired their properties in times when conditions and development standards were significantly different than those contemplated by the proposed "annexation" area Phase I developments. By way of background, I am a major property owner, with significant shoreline, on the south end of Long Lake (see attached map). Had I known in 1990 (when I acquired the land) what I know today, it is highly unlikely that I would have purchased the land and built the house that we moved into on April 1, 1993. Since 1995, I along with other former Stillwater Township home owners, have had to devote countless hours to governmental meetings and hearings in order to try to preserve the character and property values of an area that was substantially developed along large lot (2 1/2 acres plus) guidelines, and is now threatened by high density development, primarily on the western shores of Long Lake. In addition, the developments of Market Place and the Highway 36 corridors of Oak Park Heights and Bay town have caused significant water runoff and related problems for the Lake in question. On Wednesday, February 12, 1997, I received in the mail an undated and unsigned "Notice of Public Hearing On Surface Water Use of Long Lake" concerning a meeting on February 17, 1997. I do not recall seeing any publication of this meeting notice in either of the City's official newspapers. Due to a previous commitment, and the untimely short notice of the subject hearing, I may not be able to attend the meeting. Therefore, I am submitting my comments in writing. Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: City of Stillwater Planning Commission City of Stillwater Parks Board City of Stillwater Community Development Director 216 North Fourth Street Stillwater, Minnesota 55082 February 14,1997 RICHARD L. HUELSMANN 12610 62ND SlREET NORm STILLWATER, MINNESOTA 55082 . . . (4) Watercraft use should be limited to IIboats" -- as that term is generally understood (excludes jet-skis, ski-do os, etc.) -- that are either not motorized or are motorized by not more than ten (10) horsepower. This effectively eliminates excessive noise nuisance, excessive speed and water IIskiingll. . Alternatively, it would be acceptable to have no more than two associations that collectively are limited to the number of IIboats" (see below) that does not exceed in total the number of boats that could have been on the lake had the western shore been developed along rural! township standards (assuming one "boatll per 2 1!2 acre lot). (3) The western shore city style developments be prohibited from forming associations or other forms of organizations that would grant all property owners within the developments access to and usage of the lake - only those residential property owners with lots abutting the shoreline would have access (as is the current situation). This prohibition is necessary to preserve the rights and values of current residential property owners (which constitute over 60% of the shoreline) and to protect this small lake from over crowding and consequent environmental damage. (2) No public beaches or other areas that alter the existing natural landscape within 50 feet of the shoreline. (1) No public access for the launching of water craft of any kind. My recommendations for a surface use policy for Long Lake are as follows: . Any use policy must consider and respect the above factors. (2) Approximately 60% of the lakeshore has been developed under rural/township large lot guidelines. Only a small portion, off Marine Circle, has been developed to date by IICity" density standards (see attached map). (1) Long Lake is a "meandering lake" without a legally defined shoreline. The legal property descriptions of all owners of lakeshore property include specific lands underlying the lake. Accordingly, the lake is totally privately owned and is not in the public domain and has never had public access to it. As the city develops its policy position for the surface water use of Long Lake, there are two major factors that must be considered as foundations for any policies: current "unrestricted II usage cannot be continued as the lake is two small to accommodate unlimited usage. City of Stillwater Planning Commission Page 2 February 14, 1997 . Copies to: Gene "Taco" Bealka, Councilman David T. Magnuson, City Attorney . CAK ~~ Richard L. Huelsmann Thank you for considering these matters. Finally, I want to specifically state that I am not a member of The Friends of Long Lake Homeowners Association, Inc., and I do not consider that organization to be a representative of my interests. I have a small 14 foot fishing boat with a 25 HP motor; the boat has generally been used 5 or 6 times a year. I do not have a dock. If my recommendations are adopted, I will have to dispose of the 25 HP motor (at a loss) and purchase a motor with 10 or less HP. I am willing to do this. There are trade offs for all concerned. Again, the extremes of (1) "no motorized craft" of any sort to (2) unrestricted use are not the answers. My recommendations provide a reasonable solution. . The above policy recommendations reflect significant compromise for all involved. However, in my opinion, they represent a reasonable solution to some very difficult issues. No one wins; no one totally looses; there is "give and take"; the traditional serenity and character of the pristine area for the most part is preserved, while at the same time, allowing new homeowners on the western shore with lake front property (or via the alternatively described limited "associations") access substantially equivalent to that of existing lakeshore property owners who purchased their lands under different conditions and with different expectations. (6) Snowmobile and other similar usage should be prohibited, because of the noise nuisance. (5) Docks should be prohibited -- water craft would be restricted to that which is "pulled onto the shore". A proliferation of docks significantly detracts from the aesthetics of the natural shoreline. The present practice of unrestricted dockage has resulted in some large docks protruding into the lake that include benches and other additions creating the appearance of a "deck" in the lake. City of Stillwater Planning Commission Page 3 February 1~, 1997 . Op �R �a oQQQQ4