HomeMy WebLinkAbout1983-03-01 CC MINCOUNCIL CHAMBERS
Stillwater, Minnesota March 1, 1983 7:30 P. M.
REGULAR MEETING
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Peterson.
The Invocation was given by the City Clerk.
Present: Councilwomen Avise and Bodlovick, Councilman MacDonald and
Mayor Peterson
Absent: Councilman Kimble
Also Present:
Press:
Citizens:
Finance Director/Coordinator, Kriesel
City Clerk, Schnell
City Attorney, Magnuson
Director of Public Safety, Abrahamson
Superintendent of Public Works, Shelton
Building Official, Zepper
Director of Parks & Recreation, Blekum
Consulting Engineer, Moore
Planning Commission Chairman, Farrell
Bonding Consultant from Springsted's, Ron Langness
Free Press - Jay Englehardt
St. Paul Dispatch, Broede
Stillwater Gazette, Regan
WVLE -
Mrs. Pat Medbery, Charles Neuenfeldt, Betty Buschmann, Sia
Casanova, Stan Hanks, Mr. & Mrs. H. J. Costello, David Dahl,
Bruce Folz, Pat Mulvehill, David Swanson, Bruce Crombie, Kurt
Laughinghouse, (also architect for Derrick Land Co.), Thomas
Loome, Joseph Helget, James Peterson, Ron Newman, Rod Richert
INDIVIDUALS & DELEGATIONS (out of order)
1. DAVID DAHL presented to the Mayor and the City of Stillwater a copy of the dictionary
for the various Oriental languages including Hmong together with evaluation sheets -
he explained the dictionary to the Council and requestingthat they complete the
evaluation sheets and get them back to him as soon as possible.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, minutes of the
following meetings were approved: (all in favor)
January 18, 1933
January 18, 1983
February 15, 1983
February 15, 1983
BID OPENING
This was the day and
Bonds of 1983.
RON LANGNESS, Bonding
bids at this time:
Bidder
Regular Meeting
Recessed Meeting
Regular Meeting
Recessed Meeting
4:00 P. M.
7:30 P. M.
4:00 P. M.
7:30 P. M.
time for the bid opening for the $650,000 G. 0. Corporate
Consultant from Springsted's opened the following eleven
BANCNORTHWEST 5.00%
Moore, Juran & Co., Inc.5.50%
M. H. Novick & Co., Inc.5.75%
6.00%
6.25%
Coupons
ALLISON-WILLIAMS COMPANY
5.25%
5.757,
6.00%
6.20%
6.375%
1985
1987
_988
1939
1990
1985
1987
1988
198
1990
Net Interest
Price Cost & Rate
$644,800.01 $219,324.99
(6.092%)
$645.450.00 $225,762.50
(6.2711%)
(contir.aed on page 415)
March 1, 1983
Net Interest
Bidder Coupons Price Cost & Rate
415>
The First National Bank 5.25% 1985 $645,612.50 $225,862.50
of St. Paul 5.75% 1987
Craig-Hallum, Incorporated (6.2739%)
6.00% 1988
The First National Bank
Of Stillwater 6.20% 1989
6.40% 1990
CRONIN & MARCOTTE, INC. 5.50% 1985 $645,125.00 $226,475.00
5.757, 1987 (6.2909%)
6.00% 1988
6.20% 1989
6.40% 1990
PIPER, JAFFRAY & HOPWOOD,
INC. 5.25% 1985 $644,215.00 3228,910.00
Blyth Eastman Paine 5.75% 1987 (6.3586%)
Webber, Inc. 6.00% 1988
6.257, 1989
6.50% 1990
KIDDER, PEABODY & 5.00% 1985 $641,387.50 $231,162.50
COMPANY, INC. 5.60% 1987 (6.42118%)
F. & M. Marquette 6.00% 1988
National Bank 6.25% 1989
6.50% 1990
ROBERT W. BAIRD & 5.00% 1985 $639,250.00 $231,950.00
COMPANY, INC. 5.70% 1987 (6.44305%)
6.00% 1988
6.20% 1989
6.40% 1990
AMERICAN NATIONAL BANK 5.30% 1985 $643,339.00 $232,011.00
& TRUST COMPANY 5.90% 1987 (6.4447%)
Dougherty, Dawkins, 6.107, 1988
Strand & Yost, Inc. 6.40% 1989-1990
Juran & Moody, Inc.
E. F. HUTTON & COMPANY, 5.00% 1985 $645,450.00 $233,150.00
INC. 6.00% 1987 (6.4763%)
6.20% 1988
6.40% 1989
&.607, 1990
MERRILL LYNCH WHITE WELD 5.25% 1985 $641,192.50 $235,432.50
CAPITAL MARKETS GROUP 6.00% 1987 (6.5397%)
6.20% 1988
6.40% 1989-1990
DAIN BOSWORTH, INC. 5.25% 1985 $644,800.00 $236,175.00
6.00% 1987 (6.5604%)
6.20% 1988
6.507, 1989
6.70% 1990
On motiom of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick, a resolution
was introduced "AUTHORZIING ISSUANCE, AWARDING SALE, PRESCRIBING THE FORM AND
DETAILS AND PROVIDING FOR THE PAYMENT OF $650,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION CORPORATE
PURPOSE BONDS OF 1983" to Bancnorthwest at an interest rate of 6.092 percent.
Ayes --Councilwomen Avise and Bodlovick, Councilman MacDonald and Mayor Peterson
Nays --None (see resolutions)
PUBLIC HEARINGS
This was the day and time for the public hearing on Case No. 473 for a Special Use
Permit fro Thomas and Karen Loome to sell second-hand religious books on Saturdays
at 320 North Fourth Street.
Notice of the bearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the
official newspaper of the City on February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all
property owners .within 300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
MR. LOOME stated that this would be a professional second-hand book store - they
do primarily national and international postal business and most of the books are
in the area of religion. Did not feel they will create a traffic problem.
March 1, 1983
The Planning Commission unanimously approved this request.
No one appeared as being either in favor or opposed to the request - Councilwoman
Avise presented to the Mayor a letter from Mr. Cummings which indicated no objection.
The Mayor closed the hearing.
0n motion of Ccuncklwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald„ the Council
granted the Special Use Permit to Thomas and Karen Loome to sell second-hand
religious books on Saturdays at 320 North Fourth Street as recommended by the
Planning Commission. (all in favor)
2. This was the day and time for the publis hearing on Case No. 474 for a variance for
an overhanging sign for a beauty shop at 220 East Chestnut Street for the Golden
Mirror Beauty Shop (Cyn-Pat, Inc.)
Notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Gazette, the official news-
paper of the City, on February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all property owners
within 300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
JOSEPH HELGET AND JIM PETERSON explained the sign that they are having prepared for
this shop and the fact that they will be doing other exterior decorating to improve
the looks of this corner and dress it up. They displayed a drawing of the proposed
sign. They have scaled the sign down to 22" by 25" and it is being painted by
William McDonald.
The request was denied by the Planning Commission by a three to four vote as
they felt that it would be setting a precident for the downtown area.
The Mayor closed the hearing.
0n motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilwoman Bodlovick, the Council
moved to deny the request based on the fact that we are setting a precident.
DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION -
COUNCILMAN MAC DONALD stated that he voted for three signs downtown and with a sign
that looks like this that the precidence has already been set - did not feel that they
should receive a flat denial.
COUNCILWOMAN AVISE did not feel that three or four wrongs could make a right.
MR. MAGNUSON stated that when the ordinance was written all of the signs in the down-
town area were removed and he did not feel that they had to worry about a precidence and
that the Council could be in trouble if they did not like a particular sign as everyone's
taste is much different. It is a legislative decision and whether or not it is a good
idea; to turn people down is tin! Council's idea.
JIM PETERSON questioned awnings and MR. ZEPPER stated they were not included in the
ordinance.
VOTE ON THE MOTION -Ayes --Councilwoman Bodlovick
Nays --Councilwoman Avise and Councilman MacDonald
(motion defeated)
On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the Council
approved the variances for an overhanging sign for a beauty shop at 220 East Chestnut
Street for the Golden Mirror.
Ayes --Councilwoman Avise, Councilman MacDonald and Mayor Peterson
Nays --Councilwoman Bodlovick (motion carried)
3. This was the day and time for the continuation of the public hearing on Case NO. 466
to add one additional unit in the church building at Fourth and Pine Streets for
Charles Neuenfeldt.
Notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the official
newspaper of the City on February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all property owners
within,300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
The request was denied by the Planning Commission on February 28, 1983 because of the
traffic and also that he has already received too many variances.
MR. NEUENFELDT explained his revised plan adding garages an the southwest corner with
a driveway on the south property line since there was a problem because the property
owner to the south is considering adding to his garage area and this could involve
another variance. He explained that there is 3,000 square feet in the basement and he
would like to utilize same for another unit. The housing is needed and the units are
unique in design and will not be low income housing.
alum
March 1, 1983
4171
10
lo
BETTY BUSCHMANN, 1215 Fifth Avenue South, who did the listing for this property,
stated that the variances were granted for a three plex with one unit being used
as a meeting room in the basement and she felt that thisnew plan would create far
less traffic and that there would not be more than two car- there wit). townhouse/
condos. She stated that these units are beautiful.
MRS. PAT MEDBERRY, 215 West Pine Street, again stated that this is a congested area
as far as traffic is concerned on both Pine and Fourth Streets both day and night.
Also originally the owner was going to live in the building and now they have been
passede on to someone that is going to make a profit on it. She did not fAel that
the work is satisfactory - it is not quality work as the paint is already feeling.
Also he is beyond the code on the green area and the code calls for shielditg frcm
the neighbors - all of the neighbors are still against it. \
MRS. STELLA(S) CASVANOVA, 223 West Pine Street, stated that this basement every
spring is flooded and did not know how anyone could live in there. Also she felt
that the chimney is a fire hazard. The traffic is very congested with this narrow
street especially in the winter time.
MR. NEUENFELDT stated that the paint job was done late in the fall to temporarily
satisfy the neighbors since this building had been an eyesore for years and also
to give the impression that he was serious about renovating the building - he will
not leave the paint that way. He stated that the reason that the basement had flooded
war that the floor drains had frozen shut and the roof was completely deteriorated,
and he plans to have that corrected.
He stated that the chimey is not a fire hazard as it has three tile plate liners
and he is installing three hot water heaters with three boilers - some of the bricks
are flaking off and they will be stuccoed over.
MR. ZEPPER stated that he is doing good work there - did not feel that the space
would have to go to waste that it could be used for something. He was concerned
about backing out of a 95 foot driveway and that this could be a problem.
Questions were asked as to where the trash receptacles would be located and
there was no reponse on this matter.
MR. ZEPPER stated that he would need another 4,400 square foot variances for this
additional unit - the ordinance allows 51% lot overage and he is in excess of that -
back sideyard variances for the garages.
THE MAYOR CLOSED THE HEARING.
On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
followed the Planning Commission's recommendation to deny the request for the added
unit at this specific address because of the traffic which has to be considered.
(all in favor)
4. This was the day and time for the public hearing on Case No. 472 for a Conditional
Use Permit for Patrick Mulvehill to practice Psychotereapy out of his home located
at 301 West Myrtle Street.
Notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the
official newspaper of the City, on February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all
property owners within 300 feet.
The Mayor opened the hearing.
The Planning Commission approved this unanimously.
ROD RICHERT,
in this area
about this.
COUNCILWOMAN
checking the
315 West Myrtle Street, stated a number of businesses have started up
and he does not like the Commercial encroachment and had concerns
BODLOVICK was concerned about a business owner operating without
codes, etc.
MR. MULVEHILL stated that he did not feel that he started ahead of time, but he
did put up a sign and was ignorant that there could be a problem and that there
is a lot of space around this small house. He stated that he would be having
roughly three customrs per day - he allows about 55 minutes for each appointment
and about a half hour between such appointments.
THE MAYOR CLOSED THE HEARING.
On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the Council
accepted the Planning Commission's recommendation and granted the Special Use
Permit to Patrick Mulvehill at 301 West Myrtleli.
AYES --Councilwoman Avise and Councilman MacDonald
NAYS --Councilwoman Bodlovick, (motion carried)
5. This was the day and time for the public hearing on Case No. 475 for a Special Use
Permit for Donald F. Nolde for a two story office building at South Third and
Olive Streets.
Notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the official
newspaper of the City, or. February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all property
owners within 300 feet.
•
%418
March 1, 1983
STAN HANKS was in attendance for the petitioner, but since Mr. Nolde Tid not appear
at the Planning Commission meeting no action was taken on this matter.
On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
moved to pass this back to the Planning Commission for their meeting on March 28,
1983. (all in favor)
THE MAYOR DECLARED A RECESS FROM 8:35 to 8:40 P. M.
6. This was the day and time for the public hearing on Case No. 467 for a Special Use
Permit for Derrick Land Co. to construct five 8-unit condominium buildings on
Outlots A and B, Croixwood Sixth Addition.
Notice of the hearing was published in the Stillwater Evening Gazette, the official
newspaper of the City on February 18, 1983 and copies were mailed to all property
owners within 300 feet.
THE MAYOR OPENED THE HEARING.
BRUCE FOLZ explained the details of this plat which consists of 3.2 acres which is
zoned RCM and there could be 59 units on this property. The County has approved the
traffic access on County 5 and there will be a second access on Croixwood Blvd. r"
There is sixty percent open space and he explained the details of the drainage from
this area, but the details for same have not been completed with the City's Engineer.
KURT LAUGHINGHOUSE, explained the various styles that will be used for these units -
the Tudor model will be faced with brick or stone and there would be only four
garages visible from the street side. They also have a Victorian design, a Colonial
Design and a Traditional design. —
GARY TUCHY, Architect, explained the details of the various designs and the square
footage and the possibilities for expansion. He felt that the Victorian model
should be very well accepted in this City which will be the first one to be built.
MAYOR PETERSON asked if the internal streets would be the responsibility of the Home
Owners Association and this was confirmed by Mr. Laughinghouse - they will have to
have a high pre -sale before they can secure the FHA loan which would be 16 to 24
units. They will take care of the outside maintenance, snow plowing. There will be
no on -street parking and they would like to have 20 foot streets and they would be
posted for 15 to 20 miles per hour.
COUNCILMAN MAC DONALD asked if parking on a private street can be controlled by the
Police Department and MR. MAGNUSON replied that they can be posted as "Fire Lanes"
and the police can ticket and tow any such violaters.
COUNCILWOMAN BODLOVICK asked about the qulaity of the street and she was informed that
the engineer would set these standards which will be a five ton axel load street.
COUNCILWOMAN BODLOVICK asked about the projected number of children and MR. LAUGHING -
HOUSE stated that these units are one bedroom plus a den and there would be an average
of two persons per dwelling unit and the number of children would be very low -
possibly ten to fifteen.
NO ONE SPOKE IN FAVOR OR OPPOSED TO THIS PROPOSAL.
Questions were raised about whether these should be private or public streets
for this development, possible recreation areas.
MR. MAGNUSON stated that there has always been a danger of accepting sub -standard
streets down the line. The engineer could control the design of the streets and
the internal pressure of the home owners association would dictate the maintenance
of the streets and with condos they would be safe with private streets. If they
needed major repair in the future, the association could have the work done and
they could bill each individual unit for the improvement.
MR. LAUGHINGHOUSE stated that they can use different color street signs marking
them as a lrivate drive which would impress upon the public that it is not intended
as a public street.
MR. MAGNUSON further stated that a Home Owner's Association is a legal vehicle.
COUNCILWOMAN AVISE asked Mr. Ron Newman (member of the Planning Commission) for his
reasons for the negative vote on this matter at the Planning Commission and he stated
that because of the high density on the main entrance to Croixwood, they did not see
the appearance of the dwelling units and he did not feel that they would blend in
with the balance of the Croixwood area.
COUNCILMAN MAC DONALD stated that he was originally opposed and will vote for this
permit so long as they have fire lanes posted and the people be ticketed and towed
if they park on these streets.
JACK SHELTON questioned if we had a year like this year for snow if they would be
maintained and plowed so that a fire truck could get into the area - he made
reference to the problems they had this past season with the Charter Oaks Development.
March 1, 1983
MR. LAUGHINGHOUSE stated that the City can do it if not taken care in due time and
assess it - there is a legal way to cure the problem.
THE MAYOR CLOSED THE HEARING.
On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the
Council approved the Special Use Permit for the townhouse units on Outlots A
and B of the Croixwood Sixth Addition as recommended by the Planning Commission
with the attachment that all the codes in the RCM District be complied with.
(all in favor)
INDIVIDUALS & DELEGATIONS
None at this time
PETITIONS
None
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
1. MR. MAGNUSON explained the changes that the Council requested be made in the
Developer's Agreement on page 2 paragraph 1.03, (A) fourth line and add 'a maximum
of' ahead of the 283 dwelling units.
Page 6 (bottom of the page) delete the following in paragraph 2.13 "this time
limit and any time limit contained in the ordinance with regard to Planned Unit
Developments shall not apply to this development and" .
On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the Council
approved the signing of the Developer's Agreement with Ann and Paul Emerson with
the aforementioned changes. (all in favor)
2. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
confirmed the Mayor's appointment of Raymond 0. Marshall to the Library Board as
recommended by the members of the Library Board. (all in favor)
NEW BUSINESS
1. On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the Council
approved the following Waivers for Refuse and Garbage billings: (all in favor)
A-33, A-34, A035, A-36, A-37 (see file for the names)
2. It was not necessary to set the hearing date for Case No. 478 for Richard Iverson
since he withdrew his case.
3. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, a resolution
was introduced "DIRECTING THE PAYMENT OF THE BILLS".
Ayes --Councilwomen Avise and Bodlovick, Councilman MacDonald and.. -.
Mayor Peterson
Nays --None (see resolutions)
INDIVIDUALS & DELEGATIONS
None at this time
COUNCIL REQUEST ITEMS
None
COMMITTEE REPORTS
PUBLIC SAFETY
1. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
ordered the ventilation improvement for the Police pistol range providing there is
enough money in the bond issue and the work be done by Schwantes at a quoted price
of $2,140. (all in favor)
2. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, a resolution
was introduced "INCREASING THE COMPENSATION FOR THE PART -TINE POLICE OFFICERS TO
$8.50 PER HOUR" (Effective date March 1, 1983)
AYES --Councilwomen Avise and Bodlovick, Councilman MacDonald and Mayor Peterson
NAYS --None (see resolutions)
March 1, 1983
•
PUBLIC WORKS
1. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
authorized the Superintendent of Public Works to obrain quotations for a steam
pressure cleaner for the garage and directed the City Clerk to advertise for a
loader, grader and pickup truck for the Public Works Department. (all in favor)
2. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, Mr. Shelton
was aithorized to advertise for the sale of some bvck which is currently stored
at the Gity Garage which was left over from the addition to the Public Library.
(all in favor)
BUILDING OFFICIAL
two
l have been overEPPER omilliondollars
Council
twhat for orth oftpermitsfirst
issued months of the year there
2. On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the City Attorney
was directed to take whatever action is necessary to have the dwelling house at
1218 South Second Street condemned as being hazardous. (all in favor)
PARKS & RECREATION the Council
1. On motion of Councilman MacDonald, seconded by Councilwoman Avise,
authorized Mr. Blekum to purchase one tractor with mower attachment from Land
Care and Equipment Company, Forest Lake at a quoted price of $4,540.00. (all in favor)
2. On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
authorized Mr. Blekum or purchase a new John Deere Tractor with mower from Century
PowerEquipment at a quoted price of $29,48.00. (all in favor)
(This includes a trade allowance for the old one of $1,800.00)
3. MR. BLEKUM explained to the Council the details of the rebuilding of the Zamboni
which could be done for about ten or twelve thousand dollars and the City Mechanic
could install these parts which could be purchased from om Ra& R Specialtiesarather time)
ther
than purchawe a new piece of equipment.
ily Lake
and he
s
4. to pr pare theu
uspecifications for hsane so that Lthe Council lcould dauthorize adirected
him to
advertise for bids for this work to be done.
FIRE CHIEF
No report
CONSULTING ENGINEERS REPORT _
l ceptorrOsewerflines but present indicatid the Council that ons are thatare uthereowillsbe nofunds
fundsfor
availabler
for this work. He felt that the City should consider having the interceptor along
the river televised and that it is possible that some repair work could be done to
correct part of the problem. He requested permission to get some quotes to get the
television work done which would amount to two to three thousand dollars.
On motion of Councilwoman Avise, seconded by Councilman MacDonald„ the
Council directed that Mr. Moore take whatever action necessary to get the sewers
televised. (all in favor)
CITY CLERK'S REPORT
No report
CITY COORDINATOR'S REPORT vise, reso
I
. On
1 wasmintroduced"INCREASINGncilwomnBTHEoCOMPENSATIONeFORyCRAIGcPETERSONCounilwomanATO$6.00 PER HOUR
RETROACTIVE TO FEBRUARY 1, 1983".
AYES --Councilwomen Avise and Bodlovick, Councilman MacDonald and Mayor Peterson
NAYS --None (see resolutions)
or
2. the KRIESEL
Mayo11, 1983 fortheBoardRofert Review forWthe1Citynwithntheasameshoursgassted
last year
(0A. hA date to
and mP schedP. ule.
and ande6:00 to 9:00 P. M.) and the Council was in
agreement with
3. On motion of Avise, authorized the oCitylCoordinator toe advertise for na1Building Inspector with Councilhe
with the
date of March 18, 1983 as the final date for accepting applications. (all in favor)
•
March 1, 1983
CITY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
No report
APPLICATIONS
--On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the Council
approved the following Contractor's Licenses: (all in favor)
Kotek Construction, Inc.
20420 Jewell Ave. N., Forest Lake 55025 General New
Miller Excavating
3636 Stagecoach Tr. N., Stillwater Excavator Renewal
--On motion of Councilwoman Bodlovick, seconded by Councilman MacDonald, the Council
ratified the issuance of one additional taxicab license to St. Croix. Valley Cab
whit-t was effective March 1, 1983. (all in favor)
Questions were asked about the Evocation of the three licenses which were
issued to Tom Cropp (Valley Taxi) since he has closed his business and MR. MAGNUSON
explained the procedures and he has written a letter to Mr. Cropp regarding this
matter to comply with the ordinances.
COMMUNICATIONS
None
QUESTIONS/COMMENTS FROM NEWS MEDIA
None
ORDINANCES
None
RESOLUTIONS
The following resolutions were read and on roll call were adopted:
1. Directing the Payment of Bills.
2. Awarding the Sale of $650,000 Bonds (Bancnorthwest)
3. Compensation Increase for Part -Time Police Officers
4. Salary Increase for Craig Peterson
ADJOURNMENT
On motion of Councilman MacDonald,
adjourned at 10:10 P. M.
Attest: ,(J ,:1 ,F'. le- i-,zgix_.,
J Cit Clerk
seconded by Councilwoman Avise, the meeting