HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-12-17 PRC MINCity of Stillwater
Parks and Recreation Board
Dec. 17, 2007
Present: Linda Amrein, chair
David Brandt, Scott Christensen, Rob McGarry, Adam Nyberg
and Sandy Snellman
Staff present: Planner Mike Pogge
Absent: Cathy Sewilo
Ms. Amrein called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m.
Approval of minutes: Mr. Brandt, seconded by Ms. Snellman, moved to approve the
minutes of Oct. 22, 2007, as presented. Motion passed unanimously.
ACTION ITEMS
Northland Park Ice Rink Agreement — Mr. Pogge explained the proposed agreement is
similar to the agreement the City has had with the Stillwater Area Hockey Association in
years past. The agreement provides the Association with exclusive use of the Northland
rink on three nights, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, in exchange for the
Association clearing any light snow cover and tending to the warming house when they
are using the rink. The City will continue to clear snowfalls of more than two inches and
flood the rink, he noted. Mr. Pogge said the agreement has worked well in the past, and
staff would encourage continuing the arrangement.
Ms. Amrein asked if there was signage notifying the public of the Association's use on
the three nights, and if there have been any problems in the past with others attempting
to use the rink on Association nights. A representative of the Association said there is no
signage but there have been few problems, and generally the situation has been
resolved by allowing the person to skate with the Association group if they so desired.
Mr. Pogge said staff could install a sign if the Board so desired. Ms. Snellman moved to
accept the agreement with the Hockey Association as presented, designating the nights
for use by the Association as Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, 5:30 to 9 p.m. Ms.
Amrein seconded the motion; motion passed unanimously.
Board of Water Commissioners well/pump house request — Representing the Board of
Water Commissioners were Robert Benson, manager of the Water Department, and
Verne Jacobsen, consulting engineer with TKDA. Mr. Pogge noted that the Park Board
had considered a request from the Water Board back in July; this is essentially the same
request and location, just north of the sand volleyball fields in Legends Park. Mr,
Jacobsen explained the Water Board needs two things, a test well adjacent taih
potential well site to test the depth and water qualityrl-le noted the Water Board has a
history with the Park Board, referring to the well in Settlers Park in the Liberty
development where a tennis court was constructed over the reservoir and grading of the
park done with some of the soils left from the reservoir excavation. In that instance, the
Water Board funded about $100,000 in improvements to Settlers Park, he pointed out.
He said the Water Board would be willing to fund some improvements at Legends Park
and suggested that it is a good use of public lands, allowing a dual purpose that doesn't
impact the park use a lot. He explained that the pump house building would be about 14'
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December 17, 2007
Page 2 of 5
by 16', not a large building. The engineer explained that issues related to Brown's Creek
preclude the drilling of additional wells north of 7511' Street (County Road 12), which limits
potential sites. He explained that most of the work could be done in the winter.
Ms. Snellman asked about the need for a public meeting. Mr. Pogge said any meeting
likely would be scheduled after the test well is drilled to determine whether or not to
proceed with the actual well/pump house. Mr. Pogge noted that the design of any pump
house would be of the same style as the surrounding neighborhood; the Water Board
spokesperson stated the pump house could be designed to look like almost anything the
Board desired, responding to a suggestion that perhaps it could look like a gazebo. Mr.
Brandt noted that with past problems with the park, grading, etc., neighbors likely aren't
the happiest group. Mr. Jacobsen said the Water Board would not be averse to a public
meeting, and noted that it would be up to the Park Board to determine what park
improvements it wants done. Park Board members suggested that this use might be a
good tradeoff for the neighborhood, getting needed and desired improvements. Mr.
Nyberg pointed out that the neighbors immediately across the street will be impacted by
whatever is done at the site, but pointed out the City does need another well and sites
are limited. Mr. Amrein noted that the Council has the final say and could allow the
well/pump house despite neighbors' objections.
Mr. McGarry asked if there had been any decision regarding a dollar amount for the
improvements the Water Board might be willing to make; it was noted the letter from
James O'Brien, president of the Board of Water Commissioners, indicated the Water
Board would be willing to fund improvements in the amount of $80,000-$90,000. There
was discussion about the possible need to realign the volleyball court, and the potential
impact of building setbacks. Mr. Christensen asked if there had been any previous
discussions regarding what improvements the Park Board would like to see made at this
park; Mr. Brandt spoke of the quality of the playground equipment. Ms. Amrein pointed
out that, traditionally, the Park Board seeks input from neighbors, and then a plan is
developed based on that input. Mr. McGarry said it thought it would be a good tradeoff —
a small house for park improvements.
Mr. McGarry moved to approve the Water Board's plan for a test well and well/pump
house in exchange for some improvements to be determined by the Park Board. Mr.
Nyberg seconded the motion; motion passed unanimously. Ms. Amrein asked when a
public meeting might be scheduled. It was noted that the test well would be drilled first to
determine whether the Water Board will proceed with the permanent facility at the site; a
test well likely will be drilled this winter.
St. Croix Valley Baseball Association request — Chris Stanton was present representing
the Baseball Association. He spoke of the Association's mission to improve baseball
fields in the area, beginning with the field at the Public Works site. He spoke of the
Association's efforts at fundraising and the volunteer labor that has gone into
improvements at the fields, including construction of dugouts and purchase of an
electronic scoreboard. He reviewed the request/recommendations previously made to
the City Council and the status of those requests. He then reviewed 8 recommendations
for improvements to be made in 2008. Regarding a request to construct a concession
stand and sell sign/scoreboard sponsorships to help pay for the cost of improvements,
Ms. Amrein pointed out the Park Board previously indicated it was not in favor of
advertising on the scoreboard; Mr. Nyberg spoke of the potential for setting a precedent
if advertising is allowed. Mr. Nyberg asked how much of the original City contribution of
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December 17, 2007
Page 3 of 5
$4,500 had not been expended; Mr. Pogge estimated there is about $2,000 available.
There was discussion about the 2008 park capital improvement budget. Mr. Pogge
noted there will likely be some carryover funds of about $30,000, including the carryover
from this contribution, or a total of about $75,000 for park funding in 2008; he said staff
would provide the Board will possible ideas of projects to be funded this year, but that
has not been done at this point. Mr. Pogge noted that the Council would have to approve
any CIP expenditures, but said he was confident discretionary funds at least in the
amount the Park Board previously recommended for this project ($6,000 in 2008 and an
additional $12,150 in 2008) would be available. Mayor Harycki was present and
commented on budget issues. Ms. Amrein wondered if it would be appropriate for the
Board to recommend a specific dollar amount at this time. Mr. McGarry said he thought
Park Board members were in agreement that they support improvements, but specific
line items might be best determined later.
There was some discussion about the request for lights and what it would take for that to
be approved; it was noted that neighbors would have to support the request. Mr. Stanton
noted there are few neighbors who would be impacted, and the lights would be on for a
minimal time. Mr. Pogge pointed out that it was a "battle" just to get a basketball court at
the site, and one of the concessions in that discussion was that the City committed to
never having lights on that field. Mr. Pogge spoke of the cost of installing lights
($100,000+) and suggested there are better areas, such as the Jaycee fields, to make
improvements that would have more benefit in the long-term. Mr. Stanton urged the City
to pursue the objective of acquiring the Jaycee fields.
Mr. Pogge summed up the discussion by listing four issues: discussion of this request in
conjunction with the CIP in January or February; a discussion of advertising on the
scoreboard/ field; concession stands/vendors in the park; and the issue of lighting, short-
term and long-term. Mr. Pogge stated he would try to have the CIP discussion in
January and would bring back some type of policy regarding ads/concessions for
discussion at that time as well. No action was taken.
Brown's Creek ski trails — Mr. Pogge reviewed the issue of the use of groomed ski trails,
an ongoing issue in Brown's Creek Reserve. He said one group religiously grooms the
ski trails, while another group uses the trails for other purposes, including walkers,
joggers and folks walking their dogs, uses which degrade the ski trails. He noted the trail
is signed. He asked for direction from the Board, noting the issue involves policy
questions regarding exclusive use of parks. Mr. Christensen noted that even following
the signage, which directs walkers to use the far left of the trail, results in walkers
damaging the trail; he said there would continue to be a problem unless the two uses are
separated and an effort made to get the two groups to their designated areas. Mr. �-
Christensen suggested the south side of the railroad tracks, should be the walking area
and the north side the skiing area. Mr. Nyberg pointed out f nothing is groomed to the
south, and it won't be utilized. Mr. Pogge said the ski group has indicated it would groom
parts of the entire area or would ask the City to do the grooming. Mr. Nyberg asked
about the trail's designation in the City's trail plan, whether it is designated as a cross
country ski trail; Mr. Pogge said the plan isn't that specific. Mr. Brandt suggested working
with the ski folks to sign certain loops as skiing only or walking only. Mr. Pogge summed
up the discussion by saying he understood the direction of the Board is to work with the
ski group to designate certain areas for certain uses and re-sign the park directing the
users to the designated areas; Ms. Amrein suggested adding snowshoeing to the
designated uses. Mr. Pogge pointed out that if the direction is to promote the use of the
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December 17, 2007
Page 4 of 5
area for Nordic skiing, it likely precludes the potential use of the area for a dog park. Mr.
Brandt moved to establish a separate trail loop for pedestrian, as outlined in staff option
No. 2. Mr. Christensen seconded the motion; motion passed unanimously.
Motion picture production permits — Mr. Pogge told the Board that the City Council had
asked that the Board consider a policy on motion pictures that are produced in parks. He
noted that sometimes such uses require nothing extra from the City, but other times,
there are special requests involved, such as police presence or a road closure, for
example. He noted that any time staff costs are incurred, the applicant is charged for
those costs, but otherwise no fee is charged for a motion picture permit. He said typically
about six permis are issued per year, about half to students and half to commercial
ventures. He pointed out that such uses generate free advertising for the City, so there is
some benefit even if a fee isn't charged for the permit. Washington County does charge
a fee for such permit, he noted. Mr. Nyberg pointed out this issue came up when the
Council was considering other user fees; he stated he didn't think a $500 fee would keep
any potential users from filming here, and he said he thought students or other non-profit
groups could be exempt from any fee. Ms. Snellman questioned the need to take any
action at this point, given the number of permits involved. Mr. Nyberg noted the move
has been to charge more park fees and wondered why the City shouldn't charge a
commercial enterprise to utilize a park for making a movie; Ms. Amrein agreed with Mr.
Nyberg, but said she thought news reports should be exempt. Mr. McGarry pointed out
that other park fees are related to reserving a park shelter — the use of a structure — or
exclusive use of a park; he spoke against charging a fee just to get money from a
"commercial venture," and he questioned the need to institute a fee given the few
number of permits that are issued each year. Mr. Nyberg moved to approve the permit
fee as presented ($500), excluding news media and non-profit uses. Mr. McGarry
seconded the motion to bring the issue to a vote. Mr. Brandt said he had an issue with
charging $500 versus $100 for other park fees, and agreed it seems like a minor issue at
this point. Motion failed 1-5, with Mr. Nyberg voting in favor. Mr. Brandt moved to
continue to charge the (motion picture) permit holder only any extraordinary costs
incurred by the City, other than regular park fees that might be involved such as use of a
shelter or exclusive use of a park. Ms. Snellman seconded the motion; motion passed 5-
1, with Mr. Nyberg voting no. Mr. Brandt and Mr. McGarry suggested that this would be
an issue worth discussion for its citywide impacts, and it was suggested the issue could
be brought back to the Board if the number of permits increases dramatically.
INFORMATIONAL ITEMS
Discussion on the Boom Site — Mr. Pogge told the Board that in November, MnDOT and
DNR convened a meeting with officials from Washington County, the City and Stillwater
Township to discuss the future of the Boom Site. He noted MnDOT closed the Boom
Site in 2006, and the DNR reopened the area in 2007 for public use but is currently
evaluating long-term maintenance of the site. He said there are three possibilities for the
site in the long-term — continued ownership and maintenance by the DNR, which would
require legislative action to make it part of the state park system so park dollars can be
used at the facility; federal ownership; or some type of local ownership, either
cooperatively or singularly. Mayor Harycki said in the earlier discussion, it is clear the
DNR is not interested in owning/maintaining the site in the long-term, and he expressed
concern about the federal government owning the site. Mr. Pogge said the County has
indicated it is not interested in ownership, and he noted it is a property the City could
acquire at a very good price. Mayor Harycki noted there would be maintenance costs
involved in City ownership, but stated an individual has indicated interest in paying the
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December 17, 2007
Page 5 of 5
janitorial costs for the first year and suggested there are avenues to pursue, such as
utilizing Sentence to Serve people, for long-term maintenance. Mayor Harycki also
spoke of the need to work with the Township should the City decide to pursue local
ownership of some sort. Members were in consensus to pursue local ownership. Mayor
Harycki suggested that perhaps a two -person subcommittee meet with Township
representatives to discuss options of how to pursue acquisition, whether jointly or one or
the other entity owning the site. Mr. Pogge pointed out that there also will have to be
additional discussions at the DNR level. No action was taken.
Update on ice rinks — Mr. Pogge told the Board that all ice rinks are open and in good
shape. Mayor Harycki spoke of the possibility of expanding the flood wall and/or
redesigning Lowell Park to incorporate an ice rink in the downtown area. Mr. Pogge
noted there are several issues Involved, making sure there is enough room for parking
and the fact that Lowell Park itself is eligible for listing on the National Registry. Mr.
Pogge said staff would be meeting with SHPO after the first of the year to determine
what SHPO will allow as far as impact on Lowell Park is concerned.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon Baker
Recording Secretary